Episode 5 is with Andrew Hearle, actor and CEO of the online drama club and acting resource site StageMilk.
This discussion went in a completely different direction to what I originally thought it would, and in a very enlightening way. Andrew’s insights into acting in general and with a focus of us late bloomers was just fantastic. So many times in my discussions about my journey as a late bloomer actor, I bring up the negatives of starting acting at such a later part of one's life, but Andrew really looks at some positives, both for the late bloomer actor but also the actors that cross paths with the late bloomer actor and how they benefit from the knowledge of the late bloomer actor.
Much of the discussion centres around Andrew's platform StageMilk, an actors resource he built whilst studying in Perth at the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts (WAAPA). We discuss the benefits that are available on the website to any actor from around the world. We also discuss the online drama club component of which I have been fortunate to have been a member of for over two years now. We particularly discuss how this has been so valuable to my acting journey and how the community within StageMilk is so beneficial to all actors who partake.
And for all listeners to this episode, make sure you listen right to the end where I tell you about a special offer Andrew has kindly made for all new sign-ups to StageMilk.
Check out the StageMilk website at www.stagemilk.com where you will find a myriad of acting resources and links to the monthly drama club. (Don't forget to find out about the special sign up offer mentioned at the end of the episode.)
Andrew can be found at www.andrewhearle.com
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David John Clark 00:00:02
My guest today is an actor and founder of the online drama club Stage Milk that he built from the ground up while studying at WAAPA, which is the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts here in Australia. He graduated from WAAPA in 2011 and has built a solid foundation of acting on his journey, working as a professional actor across TV, film and Theatre, as well as working as a director and acting teacher. He has a very strong stage presence, having performed in a myriad of stage productions during his training at WAAPA and continuing the following ten years, most recently playing Oberon in William Shakespeare's and Midsummers Night Stream at the Brisbane Shakespeare Festival in Brisbane, Queensland. As the founder and CEO of Stagemilk.com, he has built one of the world's largest acting resource websites where actors from anywhere in the world at any part of their acting journey can access a range of resources and information pertinent to the art of acting, receiving over 1000 visitors a month and reaching millions of actors. StageMilk also provides a monthly drama club where members, including myself, having been a member for over two years, now, are able to receive personalised feedback on their monthly self-tape submissions. They have access to monthly live classes with industry guests from around the world and have access to hundreds of hours of acting training and additional resources. There's just too many to list. Please welcome to the podcast, Mr. Andrew Hearle.
Andrew Hearle 00:02:03
Thank you for having me.
David John Clark 00:02:06
Thank you for being on. How are you?
Andrew Hearle 00:02:08
I'm really well, as always, it's been a busy day. We're doing the feedback that you just mentioned. We're in the midst of working on that at the moment, so reviewing lots of scenes and monologues, which has been awesome, but always busy, busy, busy at this time during the month, but it's been lovely to watch everyone's work.
David John Clark 00:02:27
Excellent. We will talk about Stage Milk a bit further on in the podcast, but you don't do all the feedback. You have a resource of fellow actors, don't you, that support us in our journey and provide that feedback. So we get different actors each month that can provide feedback.
Andrew Hearle 00:02:43
Yeah. And one of the dilemmas sometimes is we got such a good team of actors and acting coaches and casting directors on board. That a lot of them book acting work. So this happens to be a month where five or six of our coaches are away shooting films and TV shows. So it's been a lot of fun bringing in a couple of new people this month. But it's really lovely because everyone pretty much stayed on as a personal friend as well as a colleague. And it's really lovely that everyone is so passionate about what they do and helping all the students. So, yeah, it's a pretty special thing. But, yeah, we have nearly about 15 coaches now that work with us, giving the feedback in the core team and then a few others who come and go when they're not booking acting work.
David John Clark 00:03:31
Yeah, I always let mine go randomly, so I don't choose who I want to do my feedback. So I get a different coach each month and then I sometimes get another coach and it's great because they've seen your journey changing over time. So I do love that it is an important thing.
Andrew Hearle 00:03:46
And I think, as you know, you've been really pursuing acting hard and working with lots of teachers and lots of courses, and I'm a big fan of that. I think it's really important to work with lots of different methodologies and different teaching styles. I think one of the issues sometimes with the more conventional year long programs or three year programs, is you're really working with one, maybe two core coaches. And if you don't resonate with their teaching style of that methodology, you can really not make those big leaps forward in your acting because you're just stuck in a methodology that you don't resonate with or with a teacher that you don't resonate with. Anthony Brandon Wong, who I think you've worked with, as well as a fantastic Sydney based acting coach. He's coming to Stage Milk a bit. He teaches the Ivana Chubbuck method, which I've learned previously from a teacher that really didn't inspire me. And I kind of was like, well, that's not a method for me. But then I worked with Anthony, who really brought it to life through his own personality and the way he teaches. And I went, this is awesome. All of a sudden, I think that's the way with acting, that it's not just about the process of what exactly you're learning, it's how you learn it and the teacher or the coach that helps you to unpack it. So it is important, I think, to work with lots of different people.
David John Clark 00:05:02
That's interesting. So that brings me back to an introductory question. So you started out. I'm not going to mention your age. You're younger than me, but you started out in WAAPA, in Perth.
David John Clark 00:05:19
I keep saying, 'WHAPPER', it's 'WHOPPER' isn't it?
Andrew Hearle 00:05:19
the best way to remember it is like the Hungry Jacks Whopper. Yeah, which I remember. I must be hanging out with some American people at the time. When I go, you got into WAPA, the WAPA you mean like a funny name, but it's a great school and a great place to train for sure.
David John Clark 00:05:43
On that, what got you into acting and what led you up to applying and getting into WAAPA and brought you to where you are today?
Andrew Hearle 00:05:51
Yeah, I think we hear all the time. I get to interview actors all the time and pretty common story of it always being a passion. I think I grew up in England, so I was there until I was eleven. And I remember doing acting while I was still in England, did some classes after school and things like that. So it must have been for almost nine or ten that I was dabbling in it. Love doing plays with the cousins. I could all get together and do plays at home and stuff like that. And then it just kept going. And I did high school and drama to drama in high school and was very fortunate. Very common story, again with interviews that I do that I have really inspiring acting teachers. Both my high school acting teachers really pushed me. I was very lucky to have them. And I think I don't know, as most actors feel, I think when you're good at something, it is inspired. I just happened to naturally do quite well at acting and they really supported me. And Mrs. Barber, who was one of those teachers, was that she was very big on going to NIDA. So it was always clear to me that I would try out for NIDA and VCA at the time was the other really big school in Australia. NIDA and VCA were really considered the major schools. And funnily enough, I went to my NIDA audition and I was auditioning for Andrea Moore, who is now the head of QT, and she was on the panel and she was very lovely to work with. And I did quite well for an 18 year old or 19 year old. But I didn't get in and I thought, I'm going to be clever next year. I'm going to find whoever that lady was on the panel, who I didn't know at the time. And I'm going to get her to be my acting coach. And she was like, anyway, I managed to get her to help me out as an acting coach, started working with her on monologues and she was like, you've got to go to WAAPA, WAAPA is now one of the best school or potentially the best school in Australia. I hadn't really heard too much about it from growing up because it's really grown in its reputation. I think NIDA was the big school many years ago and she really convinced me to go. I trained with her and then managed to get in. So it was three attempts at drama school. So I did it straight out of high school. I think I was at Schoolies my first year. I came back and did an audition, then went the second year and then the third year tried out for all three that time and got into WAAPA and, yeah, it was kind of really Andrea's Word. I didn't know too much about it. Still, when I was like, Do I want to go to Perth? Maybe. I don't know. But the more I looked into it, the more I spoke to fellow students and also the feeling I got from the audition. I really loved Chris Edmond and Angela Punch McGregor, who are the two core teachers. When I was there, you might know Angela, she's a very famous Australian actor, and I just found them both to be really positive and great. It just felt good in the room. So, yeah, that was sort of the quick story that got me there and then flew over to Perth.
David John Clark 00:08:56
Where were you living before you went to Perth?
Andrew Hearle 00:08:59
I was actually in Brisbane at the time, so I'd grown up in Noosa on the Sunshine Coast, and so Brisbane was kind of the nearest city, so I do sort of little acting things there, but I was actually at UQ. I was doing something very boring at University of Queensland, but I always knew. I think for me, acting these days we might talk about this. I'm a big advocate of the more portfolio style training. I think you can become a great actor working privately with teachers and doing more, like, little classes here and there. But for me, as a younger actor, not knowing the process of becoming an actor, not knowing too many people, I kind of always knew I wanted to go to one of those three year programs in my personality. I guess I just like the structure of it. I like the idea of a formal training that would put me into a certain, I don't know, give me a solid training to jump into the industry. So I was very drawn to it, for sure, from Brisbane. So it was quite a big move. I've never been to Perth. I didn't know much about Perth, to be fair, I probably never would have gone to Perth had it not been for WAAPA.
David John Clark 00:10:08
Yeah, it's a long way away. I wouldn't say a different culture. It's very different, isn't it?
Andrew Hearle 00:10:16
Yeah. So it's like, never really a reason to go there. I mean, I do like it. I think everyone should go there as an Australian and explore and visit this wonderful country, but it's not a place you kind of go. I really want to go over to Perth. There are pretty good beaches in Noosa, and everyone goes on. Don't really need to see more nice beaches. There's quite a few on this side of the country.
David John Clark 00:10:36
The good thing about Perth now is that it's sort of starting to boom in its own right in the acting world. I mean, for anything. It's so far away from everything. I'm in Adelaide and still struggle because we're not eastern States. Perth. I mean, amazing, but they're starting to build their own things. I think the government is starting to put some money into the acting, so they're getting their own sound stages and being able to film stuff there to give that different vibe on shows, I suppose so that's good for them.
Andrew Hearle 00:11:05
Totally. I think the same. I mean, you probably find this in Adelaide, but I think smaller towns and cities sometimes really thrive creatively. I know Perth has a really good music scene as well as somewhere like Brisbane, which sees itself, both of them kind of a smaller Australian cities, Adelaide as well. I think sometimes it can be a positive. And I think the fact that Perth is so tucked away, I think it's the most remote city in the world or something like that.
David John Clark 00:11:30
Andrew Hearle 00:11:31
Yeah. It is a nice place. And the great thing, just to quickly say on the training at WAAPA, for anyone, if anyone is listening and looking at drama schools and stuff, when you go to drama school in Sydney or Melbourne, you're kind of in the industry immediately. And certainly, at NIDA because it has such a good name, you get industry people coming in and watching your life. I've heard that agents have popped into first year shows and as you know, in your journey, it's like certainly what we talk about a lot in Stage Milk is I really think training should be quite separate to career stuff. I think you should really be able to work on your training fairly isolated so you can just build up your skills before you start showcasing and putting yourself out there to the industry. So the really special thing about Perth in a funny way was because there isn't such a big industry, you don't mind about making mistakes, so you try things. And I find that both in the directorial choices when directors are coming over and the actors in the cohort are much more creative, they're willing to make mistakes, try things and fail in front of a public audience because you're not worried about the three Perth agents never taking you on board because you know in your head you're probably going to end up in Sydney or Melbourne. Not to take anything from some of the great people in the Perth industry, but it's just like it's not a big industry really. And most people are hoping to come back over to the East Coast, so you kind of end up being able to experiment a lot more.
David John Clark 00:12:58
That's great. And sort of more of a focus for us. My podcast being The Late Bloomers. When you were there, what was the age range of your fellow classmates all at the same age? Did you have any of us oldies?
Andrew Hearle 00:13:11
Yeah. Well, you bring up something I'm incredibly passionate about and actually quite frustrated with amongst the major drama schools because when I was auditioning as a 19 year old, certainly at NIDA, they used to advertise quite strongly that they would take anyone of any age. And I remember them saying that they had a couple of people in their late thirties. I think they even said someone in their 40s when I was auditioning for NIDA nearly over ten years ago. Nowadays that's a real you just don't see it because you get to interact with basically five years because you're there for three years and then as you move up, you experience kind of five years’ worth of students. The oldest actor, I think, was 32 when he was there, so my age and he was the oldest in the third year. There was quite a few in late 20s, kind of around that 30 mark, but I think 32, 33 was the oldest while I was there. And I guess their argument is that, well, there's other postgraduate training and other things that you could do if you've done some other degrees and other things. But I believe that the premier kind of institutions, particularly NIDA because they are the national school, they're nationally funded. I think everyone's become a bit industry focused. And I think if you turn up as an amazing 40 year old, 50 year old, 60 year old, who cares whether you are later in life or whether you have less chance of getting an agent, it should be about offering elite training to the best potential actors in the country. Maybe I'm missing something there, but I think it should be more welcoming to actors throughout because really it becomes a school of everyone in their twenty s and it's getting lower and lower. I think it used to be the rarity to see someone who was like 17, 18. Now, in all the major drama schools around the country, you'll see quite a few in each year that are 17, 18, 19, 20, whereas I was 20 turning 21 getting in, and I was the youngest in my year, so I was the youngest in my year and everyone else was more mid 20s, whereas now I think the majority is in that like 19, 20, 21, 22 space.
David John Clark 00:15:34
Why do you think that? Is it a selling thing, the home and the way beautiful young person?
Andrew Hearle 00:15:39
I think it's a complete superficial thing and I think it's can we swear on this podcast?
David John Clark 00:15:43
Yeah, of course you can.
Andrew Hearle 00:15:46
Well, I think it's bullshit because I understand that you've got to be cognizant of the industry. Actually, no, I don't think you have to be. I don't think the answer to training is to be aware of the fact that, you know, people have to graduate into an industry. I think it's like a seesaw, like .... the industry, let's just say fairly superficial. So do you pander to that and keep bringing in actors that, you know, are going to get better agents because they all look like models, or do you get the best actors? And the industry has to keep drawing on performers who are just the best actors rather than whereas I think what's happened is when I saw this first hand, I know I'm jumping around a bit here, but I think this is an interesting conversation. So when I graduated and anyone who's been to drama school will know this, you all kind of feel like you're at a certain level within the year. And then when you do the showcase, which is what happens at the end, without a doubt, it just becomes a game of who's the most attractive. Pretty much like the complete hierarchy of the year in terms of who are the best actors, is virtually inconsequential when it comes to showcase. It basically becomes not just who's the most attractive, but who kind of fits little commercial brackets.
David John Clark 00:17:09
A three year modelling course, essentially.
Andrew Hearle 00:17:11
Well, yeah, pretty much. And I think and I understand from them, they start to go, we kind of know that person is going to do pretty well and they've got to be aware of it. And it helps if you look at someone like WAAPA, obviously WAPPA had Jai Courtney, Dacre Montgomery, these kind of good looking guys who just absolutely, Dacre, particularly, who just blew up. And that obviously helps the school to no end because everyone goes, where did this guy come from? He also was a great actor, so he had the best of both worlds. But I think if you start to pander to it too much and you're just taking people in because they have a certain look, I think you're slowly eroding away at the standard. And I don't think it's a helpful thing for the industry or for the quality of acting training or the quality of work in the industry. So it is an interesting one. But I definitely think if you were to look at screenshots or photographs of the last 15 or 20 years of NIDA grads or WAAPA grads, I can guarantee you it's getting younger and they're leaning towards more commercially viable actors, just in my view, it seems each and everywhere.
David John Clark 00:18:23
I mean, I understand we want to get them young and grow them. But I discussed this with Greg Apps last month in my podcast about the changing nature of acting and the grittiness of characters almost. It used to be the blue eyes, blonde hair, pretty boy, pretty girl sort of thing. But now it's the breaking bad of TV shows, cable TV. So why can't a 40 year old who's a bit overweight you know, go to NIDA or go to WAAPA if he wants to, if he's willing to pay the fees? Because we're going to get a great actor, because they deliver great actors with a completely different look. I mean, we can only fit so many people on Home And Away.
Andrew Hearle 00:19:08
Yeah, it's a constant one. I agree. I think on all fronts in terms of all forms of diversity and age and everything, it should just be purely I'm big on meritocracy. I really think it should be who are the best actors. I think there definitely should be some consideration to like, for instance, WAAPA I believe aims for gender parity. I think things like that are obviously good. And you don't just say you can't just purely go who's the best? But I think generally you should be getting people who are doing the most interesting, compelling work, exciting work that is really going to further the quality of Australian storytelling. Yeah. But as Greg says, I do agree, and I think funnily enough, I think a lot of the time there can be some surprises in showcase with actors who are a little bit different or have a little bit of a quirky edge can do really well as well because there is that hunger for it. And everyone else I've heard casting directors talk about, I shouldn't name schools, but you can kind of go, they've got that sheen. They'll go like, they've got that drama school feel of like a certain drama school that the drama schools were kind of printing actors that all felt the same. And nice to have actors that break that mold a little bit.
David John Clark 00:20:41
So in your training, you said the oldest was what, 32 in your class?
Andrew Hearle 00:20:45
I think he turned 33 in like the final year.
David John Clark 00:20:49
So as a 49 year old, it's hard to say. Well, you had an oldie in your class, but even at 32, so he's had 10, 12 years of life experience working wherever, maybe as an actor or maybe whatever. Do you think he bought something different to you as a 20 year old learning acting, did a skill set drawing on his life experiences. Did you see that?
Andrew Hearle 00:21:11
Yeah, he was a particularly funny actor as well. I mean, sort of maybe not the most helpful example because I think in some ways he was and we talked about this a little bit. I think he felt like hanging out with a bunch of 20 year old’s sometimes. He didn't love that dynamic so much. And that is maybe one argument for having a more homogeneous sort of group of ages within a year that it can become. People can feel like they're pushed out or something because he felt a little bit like he was a bit above all the gossiping and the other little things that go on in any kind of institution. But I certainly found like, I really looked up to him and a lot of the older actors and found it incredibly valuable having him there and other actors probably the better example. I know we're talking about training, but just to reinforce your point of how much we can learn from different actors at different levels is I mean, every play that I've done, you talk about me doing Oberon in your intro. We had five or six actors who were 50 and over. And that's the case in most professional productions because you always have older actors, particularly in Shakespeare productions, you learn so much from that. And even if it's side of stage little comments, kind of passing down the traditions and I actually had one of the older actors in that come up to me and go, you're very good at Shakespeare and you kind of feel this like, well, if the experienced actor comes and tells you that it gives you a bit of a bit of a Pep in your step or something. Yeah, I think we could definitely have learnt a lot and I certainly learned a lot from him and some of the other because I was 20 really. So even for me at that time, a 28, 29 year old felt like a bit of a difference at that time.
David John Clark 00:23:07
Andrew Hearle 00:23:09
Yeah. But now as that age, I realised nothing really changes. But I did certainly view them as having a lot more life experience and being the youngest in the year, it was like having all these older brothers and sisters and I adored that.
David John Clark 00:23:22
Awesome. And I sort of will delve into that a little bit now, moving on towards Stage Milk and you've essentially become a teacher. Do you consider yourself a teacher with Stage Milk?
Andrew Hearle 00:23:36
It's a funny one. I do. And I'm kind of starting to be more proud of that. I really do love teaching, but I kind of see mainly because I'm very aware of the guru journey of acting teachers and trying to avoid that. And so I often will call myself more of a curator, meaning you can even see that in Stage Milk. Like I'll often try to bring in guests or I'll bring in other experts and not try to make it too much about me and a lot of the techniques that I teach, I'm always like find your own way. And I'll bring in tools and try to make it feel like there's not one way kind of thing. But yeah, I'm proud to be a teacher. I would say a teacher, but I think mainly broadly we're saying, look, I'm more curating ideas and bringing people together to guide people into different areas that will suit them because every actor works differently.
David John Clark 00:24:31
Awesome. Now the name Stage Milk, where did you get that from? And how would you explain what it means if a nobody comes up and says 'Stage Milk'. What's that mean?
Andrew Hearle 00:24:41
It comes up so much. I always think when every time I do an interview or something that I need to have a better answer, that I probably should just tell the truth, which isn't too exciting. But me and my brother, we both grew up kind of playing in bands and stuff and it was always the thing. I remember playing in so many bands, it was always the same conversation. You'd have like a white board out and you'd have two names like Radiohead, Cold Play, Audio Slave, like in the kind of like nineties, two thousands. That was all the band names.
David John Clark 00:25:10
Andrew Hearle 00:25:11
That's like all I probably ever named up to that point was coming up with these band names. So I think I never expected Stage Milk to be anything. It was just like a bit of fun when I was at drama school and I think we were just throwing around things like Theatre, acting, stage, and then pairing that with like friends, stage friends. And then we don't really know, someone threw out Milk and it must have just clicked like Stage Milk. I was like, that sounds pretty silly but pretty fun. I think in some ways the Milk. It was like Milk is pretty nourishing to your life. That'll sort you out. But it was very funny because for years. So now Stage Milk is pretty well known. Most actors will at least be aware of it, which is really cool. But for a long time, for years, no one obviously knew what it was. And so anytime I'd ring up someone for an interview or if we were trying to work on a collaboration with someone, I'd be like, Hi, it's Andrew here from Stage Milk. And people be like, what Milk? What does it call? Who really embarrassing? But now I kind of say it and people like, oh, you're Stage Milk. It just sounds so normal to us because we say it a lot. So it's kind of that we just sort of spit balling around names and never thought it would be anything. And then we're like, oh, we're stuck with it now. But I love it. I think it's a bit of fun. It shows that. I know I keep going on these tangents, but I think the big problem with a lot of particularly online acting stuff that I see there still isn't like a huge amount of online acting training. But I think the ones that I see the big trap of them is they often do become very salesy, very earnest, very guru heavy. And that's kind of just the nature of the Internet.
David John Clark 00:27:06
Andrew Hearle 00:27:08
I guess, broadly, acting stuff like you'll see people doing like, here are the 21 casting director handles that you should contact. And I think in some ways I'm really happy that we have I think just the name makes it shows what we're about. We are taking it seriously, but we're not like putting ourselves forward as this complete authority that we're more like there with you trying to figure it out. And we're trying to take ourselves a little bit less seriously and try to be a bit more irreverent and not be too earnest with everything that we do.
David John Clark 00:27:44
Yeah, I love it because you mentioned at the start how you don't need that formal training. You can go and do courses here and courses there. But I think it's about keeping you working or keeping you active. And I tried to start up a group here in Adelaide just a scene class saying, hey, in America, actors, even the top actors who are working every day, they still do their scene classes because it works on their body and their voice, and it just keeps them active. And that's why I do Stage Milk, because it forces me that I know that at least each month I'm doing an audition. I'm not in America, so I'm not getting seven auditions a week like some of the actors are in LA. I'm lucky if I get two or three a year. So I'm doing my audition each month with Stage Milk. It's a different theme, so I get to explore different areas, and then you guys have so many different guests. So you're learning something every time that enhances your auditions. And so that sort of leads me into going back again, as I discussed with Greg Apps about auditions and character building. So you're essentially seeing all these actors doing auditions every month. How do you see the development of characters in your students, both the young ones, whether they're out of WAAPA or NIDA or they're just straight out of school to us oldies who are bringing something? Because I think over the two years, I've been with you and you've seen a few of my self-tapes, I believe you watch most of them. So you would see me most month. Anyway. Have you seen my journey change? And how do you see life's experience coming to the actors that you see on Stage Milk each month?
Andrew Hearle 00:29:29
Yeah, well, definitely with yourself. I mean, you've been such a great part of the community, and you're one of those actors that kind of reminds me that what we're doing is working. It's nice to see that improvement every single month.
David John Clark 00:29:44
Andrew Hearle 00:29:44
And that is something that you'd think, oh, that's going to happen anywhere. But I got off the phone with a student who's now I won't say the name, but a big institution. And she just said, I just don't see anyone improving. Like, it's really interesting and that's over a year you wouldn't think that doing something that is online. I think there's still a stigma about working online. And you wouldn't think doing something online with something like Stage Milk would be as impactful as it is. But I think it is so much about that routine and that habit of just getting more confidence and getting more comfortable. And I think really for you, but also for all of the students, that is the main thing. It's just getting super relaxed. It is just an incredibly difficult thing to be real and just have a conversation in front of that camera. And especially when we learn so much and we're trying to hold on to all these tools and stuff, which is the big it is the dilemma of a training actor. In those first two or three years, you go on this journey where to begin with, you trust intuition and you're just kind of going with it. Then you learn all this stuff and you go, oh, there's actually something to acting, and then you have to spend this really long time of holding all this stuff up and kind of going, like, how much of this technique do I use, people seeing me using these tools? And what I find with a lot of actors, people get just stuck in that frustration period. And you just need to keep going and you just need to keep doing it. And if you do that, you get through to this other stage, which is the play stage where you've kind of just done it enough that it's no longer really overwhelming to be in front of thinking every moment. I've got to keep my eyeline here, I've got to do this and this. You start to solve so many of those things that almost out of boredom. You get this playful quality that you start to try things and experiment. And for me, that's the main difference between an actor who hasn't been with us for very long or an actor who is more amateur versus an actor who is experienced when I work with someone who's very experienced in my own personal life. Like if an actor friend comes over who's maybe quite successful or just at least a very trained actor, we talk about the self-tape in a different way. It becomes like, let's play, let's try things, let's do things. So I think they're the main things that I've seen in your work and others is you're doing it so regularly that you get that relaxation, you get that calm, and it allows you then to get into play and trying things and making more interesting choices and being, again, a bit more irreverent, I think with things that you're trying, which is what we love to watch. We love to see people having fun and trying things and experimenting, regardless of the character, whether that's a villainous, evil, darker character or a cheeky leading man romantic comedy or something like that. We love those lighter emotions.
David John Clark 00:32:42
And I like, we get a lot of people in your Facebook group, they're saying, I haven't posted yet, I haven't done the video. And we encourage everyone. Just share your work or submit this month. I mean, your part of this club. Submit something. Don't just ride on the curtails, watching the videos and everything. And every single one of them, when they submit that first video, the weight that comes off them is so evident in their next videos. That's correct, isn't it?
Andrew Hearle 00:33:09
100%. And I sometimes feel I guess because I talk about this stuff a lot, I sometimes start to feel like maybe what I'm saying isn't really that profound or even true anymore. And then I'm like, my friend called me, we went to WAAPA together called me yesterday. Andrew, can we start doing some self-tapes together? I really want to get back into acting. It has been literally years since he worked on a self-tape. And it's so easy for that. That is an actor who graduated as one of the stars of our year, got with one of the best agents, I won't name him in the country. Very successful actor WAAPA graduate one of the top drama schools in Australia. And life can just kind of get in the way things happen where he lost a bit of confidence. And you can so easily at all levels, at the most elite level of the industry, certainly go months, if not years. And the problem with acting, but also the cool thing about acting is the confidence works really quickly, both ways. So if you start doing self-tapes, you be brave, you share it with groups like Stage Milk, you start building up and you go, this isn't too bad, this is fun, is what I love. And you can build confidence really quickly. But every time I believe that, you let fear kind of overtake you and you go, I might share next month or I won't get up in class this week or I might not send that selftape to my agent. Or maybe I shouldn't get new headshots because I'm worried about that. It becomes this sort of cycle of fear and you can really quickly lose momentum whenever I'm doing stuff like this. For anyone who's listening, I never try to sell stage milk for me. You can take the principles of stage milk, as you mentioned, and you can do it in your own time. It's very hard to do, I find, because it's hard to stay self-motivated. So the structure of stage milk helps. But for anyone listening who like, if you're on a budget or if you don't want to work with stage or anyone else, just, I did an email about this two days ago. Grab, I've got a copy of Romeo and Juliet, grab a play, grab a screenplay, grab a monologue online, learn it, get in front of the camera and just do it. And say to yourself, you're going to do it every week or every month. And if you can just get in that routine, that alone, even if you didn't share it with anyone and just did, it would be huge.
David John Clark 00:35:34
Because one day you're going to go month after month not doing anything. And then all of a sudden, your agent is going to call you and say, we need you to do a self-tape. This is big, they want you and you're going to freak because you haven't done it, you're not ready. Whereas you could have just done one month or two months in StageMilk or any similar program and you're ready to go because I've done it, I feel comfortable, I'll just throw something on tape and it's done.
Andrew Hearle 00:35:59
And what people miss in this, it's such a good point there. And what people aren't processing, I don't think consciously, is that the industry churns on without you and that keeps staying at a very high level. So say you want to get in the audition circuit auditioning for, say, even like a supporting role, couple of scenes in Aussie TV, there is a group of, say, in each age category, maybe nearly three or 400 people that are in that sort of rough audition bracket let's say. They are all or certainly the top of that bracket, either working almost every week or a couple of months. If they're really elite or below that, they're certainly auditioning regularly. So you're over here getting no auditions or getting no opportunities if you're in that situation and then you're getting, as you say, maybe your one audition every six months or every year or whatever it might be. So you're competing with these people who are incredibly warm, who are stage fit, who are practicing this stuff, who have kind of got their ear in or their eye in for the kind of tone of different things that they're auditioning for, and you're competing against that and you're just coming in as this, like, rusty old, ... even me, like, when I get a big audition out because I'm mainly focusing on teaching, I'm like, oh, I've got to shake off the rust. You're doing an American accent and you're like, you're relearning everything and the reality is you might survive. You might do an OK job. And the casting director goes, oh, that was pretty good. But I generally find that those actors are certainly not booking the roles because people can just tell. There's just an energetic thing where you can just tell you're not at the level of these other actors. And people get annoyed about this. They say, oh, they keep employing the same actors. It's all the same actors. And it's like, it's because they're good. And I'll be honest, it's because for the most part, they're better than you. That's a brutal thing to say, but it usually is the case. You can get annoyed at people continually employing the same actors, but they're pretty damn good usually. Also, why would you take a risk on Andrew or David, who hasn't been on a film set for a year, if you've got old mate who's just come off the back of three films and, you know, you can just plonk him straight on the set, he's going to know the culture, he's going to know the world and he's going to kill it. It's just like there's a structure. Everyone wants to look good; the casting director wants to look good; the producers want to look good and we want to create a good project. So I find actors get a bit too frustrated that we're not taking a chance on new actors all the time. Or it's like, yeah, but there's a lot of money and a lot of stuff at stake, so you've got to really trust this person. But the cool thing about it is you can imitate it. You can do things like stage milk or scene clubs so that when you come in for those auditions, people can kind of feel that you've got that experience and you can do short films and feature films and be really proactive so that you get that screen experience. Because again, we see that in the audition. As you can see something I'm really passionate about. And just because it's like, again, I'm going on some big epic motivational speeches here.
David John Clark 00:39:15
But I love it.
Andrew Hearle 00:39:16
Yeah, you talked about America, right? One thing I'd love to get across to people is like everyone who goes to America starts doing those acting classes that you're talking about at all levels because it's the culture there, because it's more competitive. You literally have to do that or you would be destroyed in America. So it's just a higher standard of acting generally across the board, even though a range like everywhere else. But if you could take even 20% of the general work ethic of the Americans and bring that back to Australia or to any of the smaller countries, New Zealand or any country that doesn't have as big of an industry, you would dominate if you could take that idea. And it's like that's what other actors are doing in America and Canada and other bigger countries. So just learn from them. See if you can instill that, because what happens in Australia, I think particularly because we are culturally kind of a bit more deflective and laid back and easygoing and we don't want to show that we're working too hard. Everyone kind of comes down to that standard a little bit. And it's like be that guy that does more work than anyone else and obviously take into account burn out different things like that, aside, if you are feeling motivated and you're feeling good about it, absolutely just work harder than anyone else. People might get annoyed by that advice now that it's like, oh, you're promoting hustle culture and stuff. I'm not saying that you should be doing it with a desperation to get successful. If you love it, you should do it. I mean, I get up every day because I'm obsessed with Shakespeare and I read like two or three monologues, a couple of sonnets. Last night, I just spent an hour on YouTube just listening to like those Shakespeare solo videos from the Guardian. That's me not even trying to be an actor. That's just me doing that because I love Shakespeare. If you love it and you can cultivate that positive work ethic, that isn't all about outcome, but it's just about loving doing it. You can dominate. You really can. And people will see that in the long run.
David John Clark 00:41:14
I think that's a great point to bring on for Late Bloomer actors, because a lot of them may have that already because they've been working. They've had a steady job or a career that committed. They've got their mortgages to pay. So they have that focus. And I'm not going to belittle young people. It's such a different style of life. And young people think that everything can be handed to them so quick they don't want to work for it. And if I'm not getting what I want, I'll just quit this job and move to the next one. I love that. What you've just said there, especially for us, is that we know if we can just draw on that experience and deliver that same dedication to the acting world. It doesn't matter whether you can do three years at a drama school or not. You just do what I've been doing, do the classes and keep up the routine, and it will take you somewhere.
Andrew Hearle 00:42:02
And I love that. That is why at stage milk we do attract a similar story to you. Maybe either an actor who's fallen in love with it later in life or who did it when they were, a very common one is I used to love it as a kid and then society or other things got in the way and then I got into it later in life.
David John Clark 00:42:20
Mum and Dad wanted me to be a lawyer.
Andrew Hearle 00:42:20
Exactly. We work with a lot of actors in that bracket and with that story. And you're completely right. The work ethic is generally incredible. And even things like when you start approaching the industry often there's a lot of professionalism because people have worked in the corporate world. So they're very good at sending emails and getting headshots and being very discerning with stuff. So the cool thing about being a late bloomer in your terminology is that if you can get self-aware enough to really understand how the industry works, know your place or know kind of where you want to go with it, you can move things a lot quicker because also people love working with you because there's a professionalism, there's an understanding, there's kind of a peer to peer relationship with the industry, rather than a lot of younger actors who come and go, please industry up there rather than coming in as equals because you've got a life, you've got a family, you've got other things that make you feel like you are a complete human without acting. I find a lot of our actors who are getting into it later in life have much more freedom of play and can have fun and can see it in a better light for sure. So I think it's definitely a positive thing for sure.
David John Clark 00:43:39
Awesome. And I love this discussion because my podcast, I always write it as It's the journey of late bloomer actors and speaking to people. But I'm contemplating going to my second season of this and saying how any actor can learn from the late bloomers because we've just had a whole discussion there that if I was a new 20 something actor coming out of it and I'm trying to grab whatever I want, grab. You've just walked away with a lifetime of knowledge. If you focus on 10% of what we just talked about, it's going to take you so far. I love it.
Andrew Hearle 00:44:15
David John Clark 00:44:17
A couple of quick questions, bringing it back just to acting before we wind up, because I wanted to pick your brain on this. I know you read a lot of books and you've got your favourites and that what's your go to acting books or what's your go to method. I know you draw from it most, but if you had to pick your favourite book, say, hey, if you can only read one book, this is the one to read, what would you say?
Andrew Hearle 00:44:42
I think it's like a definitive book. I think either Uta Hagen Respect for Acting, which is the classic, but then she kind of I know she's had later versions of that as well. There's different really anything from Uta Hagen. I think the later one was the Challenge of the Actor, I believe. I think she just distils a lot of stuff and talks a lot about specificity, which I really love. The book, though, that came later in life that probably now I like to talk about the most is Stella Adler's The Art of Acting. It's kind of like she runs it as a class, but it's just super inspiring about, ... for me, acting books, they can just get so hard to integrate, to be quite technical and quite, ... I don't know, maybe it's just the way I learn, but I never really like I don't feel you're going to get like a code of a technique that you can then implement straight away. You really have to work with a teacher who can help you kind of work through it. So really the goal for me the most acting books is what makes you want to do it. And I think for me, Stella Adler's book does that like I was there going like I want to do this. I think Larry Moss does that as well, very well with the Intent To Live. So finding those books I think is really inspiring, but probably those too. I also mention Audition by Michael Shurtleff a lot, a practical audition book. I think there's just some of the ideas and some of his turn of phrase can be a little bit dated. And some of the things he talks about like how long to turn the lamps on in an audition. It's kind of funny almost to see it. But the actual core principles I think are incredible and very helpful, particularly for screen acting and auditioning. They're probably four or five books, but also for anyone. My sort of brain is basically like squidged out. I couldn't think of a better metaphor on the Internet on stagemilk.com with over 1000 articles. So we have a great if you just search like 'best acting books stage milk', that's like my top ten there. So that's a helpful resource as well.
David John Clark 00:46:50
I love how you said that you focus more on what the book gave you in a motivational sense rather than an ability sense, because we've already discussed that acting can be so much and you build your own toolbox from your experiences, whether that's three years at NIDA or ten years as a public servant coming to an actor, you just pull these little tools out and you make them work. That's awesome. I love it.
Andrew Hearle 00:47:15
David John Clark 00:47:17
A big question. And I asked this a lot in most of my episodes because everyone asks, it one of the hardest thing actors find. And we do it in stage milk because you have a small window to get these scenes down, memorization of your lines. What's your favourite technique more so with scripts? Because I know we've got an awesome video out on monologues, which I've used, which is to write down the first letter of each word. And I think for a monologue, it's absolutely brilliant. It floored me. When I first did it, I took a one-page monologue and I had it in five to ten minutes.
Andrew Hearle 00:47:53
I was the same. Yeah. So for anyone who wants to have a look again, just go on YouTube, like how to learn lines fast. And you'll see me with slightly longer hair talking through a technique. It's not an original idea. It comes from other memory tricks and everything like that. But it's one of the few memory tricks that I think actually is good for actors because it doesn't take you down a rabbit hole of weird memory palaces and stuff like that, which doesn't, I think work for acting. I actually do use it for scripts as well. I just will do it with just my lines. So I kind of want to turn it into a monologue. So just write out the first letter. I think it's pretty boring advice, but I think other than, I mean, that is a genuinely like, good hack and I can't find a good hack myself. So definitely check out that for anyone listening.
David John Clark 00:48:45
I have used it for a script too before, and I did one script again, like the monologue when I first did it, it was, oh, my God, it's fantastic. And then I did it for another script and it didn't work, so it can depend on the type of script.
Andrew Hearle 00:48:55
Absolutely. Where I think it's a good. I think why it works is because when you're learning lines and you're a bit fatigued and it's just too much for your brain to take in, I think it's kind of like a good one when you're. Because you can do it. It's like an easiest. The computer analogy is like less CPU on the brain or something because you're doing just a middle step. This will make sense if anyone, if you go and watch the video. But outside of that, I think it's really like understanding the words and the thoughts. A lot of people will come to me and go, I find Shakespeare very hard to learn, and it's usually newer actors who struggle with that, because for me, Shakespeare is the easiest to learn because I know it and I know the musicality and I know the language quite well, so I actually find it's quite easy to learn. And it just comes back to like, if I tried to learn a monologue in French, it'd probably take me like months because you'd be like, there's no logical progression in the lines. So I think really knowing what are the thoughts of the character, what is the character going after? And really learning those thoughts underneath the words can be very helpful. But again, find your own process. I have this one kind of annoying friend who gets too many auditions for this to be the only way you can learn lines, but he has to do it with someone else. I'm like, just, can you at least go and like half get there? And then we'll learn? He's like, no, I can't. So we have to straight up he'll get it and then we have to do it together. So it kind of gets you to feed in the line and then he'll learn it like that. To his credit, he learns it pretty quickly, but it's pretty annoying as a housemate or a girlfriend or partner or something because you're like, I don't want to do every single script review. So I think the main thing is finding your own process. I know just because hopefully there'll be some real acting nerds listening. Another one that is good is never worked for me, but it's writing it out. Like, a lot of actors I know that is they swear by that. So they'll literally just rewrite out the script and they'll just do it like two or three times and then they've got it.
David John Clark 00:51:08
My hand just gets too sore. Too quick.
Andrew Hearle 00:51:10
Yes. Doesn't work for me, that one. There are a few things I would try that's awesome.
David John Clark 00:51:17
I think that comes back to what we were talking about with Stage Milk and doing self-tapes. It gets quicker and easier the more you do it.
Andrew Hearle 00:51:17
David John Clark 00:51:17
Awesome. Well, thank you, Andrew. I think we're coming towards the end of our we're at 50 minutes now, so it's fantastic. I always love it when I get to this point in a podcast, and I surprised myself that we've made it this far because you inspire me for how you talk on our groups. You have so much to say and so much knowledge to impart on people. I tend to get scared that I'm going to trip over and not have anything to say, so I love it.
Andrew Hearle 00:51:54
I was going to quickly confess that even after all this time and doing Stage Milk that I feel exactly the same way and behind the scenes, there's all sorts of reshoots and different things. So I think you've done a fantastic job and been loving the podcast so far, so you're doing an amazing job, man.
David John Clark 00:52:10
Thank you very much. And I've said this before that I do it because I like to share experiences and knowledge with people and that's why I run my Facebook group here in Adelaide, and it's why I participate so much in your group on Facebook, because I think if I can pass on something to someone and they take something from it, if I see them on Home And Away or in a movie later on, you know what? I reckon I probably had a little bit to do with that, and I think that's fantastic. All right, speed round quickly. My favourite question, what's your T shirt quote?
Andrew Hearle 00:52:42
Well, obviously stagemilk.com, I got to get the advertising where I can. Something I think about a lot at the moment. I know you said speed around, but it's like really trusting yourself. This is maybe it's not particularly witty, but something to the effect of like, listen to no one or trust yourself or just do it. That's a probably a Copyright issue there with or not, but something to that extent of like, yeah, just do it for you.
David John Clark 00:53:12
I love it. And most people lean towards that motivational saying and I love it or something personalised. So that's why I asked the question. What one person, dead or alive, would you like to have dinner with? And it doesn't have to be acting who would motivate you to sit down and have dinner with that you'd like to do?
Andrew Hearle 00:53:29
It's funny, I should again have some more witty answers to these, but I listened to a quiet sort of spiritual teacher who's passed away called Ram Dass, who was like this 60s, very kind of hippie teacher who I have just gotten really into. And when you see these people who are like from just another, they just see the world in a different way. And I guess just to answer the question honestly, at the moment, I literally spent a lot of time going, if you were alive, I would go and seek you out just to chat with you. So that'd be the one.
David John Clark 00:54:04
That's awesome. And I've been wondering whether this would be Shakespeare or not. But what's your go to monologue.
Andrew Hearle 00:54:14
You know what? I probably now wouldn't do it because it is quite overdone. But probably if I like thinking my life as an actor, like the monologue is probably BIFF from Death of a Salesman, which is a very famous play by Arthur Miller. It was the monologue when you first looked through the NIDA list. Now, here Miss Willie, this is me that I went. It's very active monologue, and it's a monologue that I've done myself over the years. And I've now probably seen nearly in the thousands of people probably take it on. I reckon over the years you've seen different people do it very famous, very overdone monologue, but.
David John Clark 00:54:52
I love it. I'm lacking a lot of culture still. And as I approach my 50s, I'm trying to catch up on a lot of Shakespeare. I saw Midsummer Night's Dream for the first time in Hobart with my wife when I was down there. I haven't done a lot of Shakespeare, because I didn't do drama at school. So I don't know Shakespeare. So I'm trying to catch up and I did the BIFF monologue as part of Stage Milk, I think. So I didn't have anything to draw on. I've never seen it. I knew the name of it but didn't know what it was about. So I had a lot of fun with it because of that, I think.
Andrew Hearle 00:55:26
It's just for some reason, I guess, particularly for interesting to do it in this conversation as an actor, a bit later in life. But think maybe that could be a whole other podcast. But I think for men or in my experience, it was like such an iconic thing. Even if you've had great parental figures, this idea of stepping up and stepping out of the pressure of a father figure, I think it just seems to be one that was written 50 plus years ago that it just resonates with people, this idea of stepping up to a father and saying let me go or let me be me kind of thing. So it's a really cool monologue for sure.
David John Clark 00:56:11
Great for actors, because it gives them so much to draw on and build that character and that development. All right, Andrew, I think we're at the end of it. Fantastic. Where can people find you as Andrew Hearle the actor? Are you online?
Andrew Hearle 00:56:26
Yeah, I guess if you want to get to me personally, my life is very intermixed with StageMilk. StageMilk and Andrew is basically one entity at this point. But I'm probably Instagram where I'm publicly facing just me personally. I think it's Andrew Samuel Hearle, if you want to @Andrew Samuel Hearle. But honestly, even though Stage Milk has become quite well known, I'm as hands on as ever. So you can always reach out to the StageMilk Instagram page. We check that every day. Or you can send us an email, Andrew@stagemilk.com. I mean, the main thing I'd probably say for anyone who, if anything I've said has resonated with anyone, just go enjoy Stagemilk.com. It's totally free. There's nearly over 1000 articles. We also have a YouTube channel, again, that's totally free. And I think there's so much kind of accumulated knowledge from me and from other teachers that we bring in that you can just spend hours on there, just enjoying lots of wonderful content.
David John Clark 00:57:27
Awesome. And for anyone that wants to follow my footsteps to do Stage Milk Drama Club, how do they sign up for that?
Andrew Hearle 00:57:33
Yes, again, if you go to Stagemilk.com, there's usually a nice little sign-up button in the corner and it will take you to a page. And the great thing is we want to make it really approachable in your first month so you can do the first month at a really good price. We always do, like pretty much all of it. The only reason we didn't fully do it for free was that, as David knows, we're very personal and you get coaching and all sorts of stuff, and we want to make sure the actors that we take on are actually serious about it. But it pretty much is like a free trial. It's the cheapest first month you will ever do in an acting training at this level. So I always say to actors, give it a go. You can sign up really quickly. And the great thing with Stage Milk, you're never locked into anything. So if it's not for you or you want to pause, you want to take some time off, you can always do that. And I guess just to finally come back to a bigger picture thing is that as we started with this chat, I always have to try Stage Milk because it's another thing to try. You may go, Andrew is a lunatic. I hate him. I don't like his way of approach. Same with Greg Apps. Greg Apps has a lot of training. You might go and work with Greg. I love Greg, as many people do. And you might also go. It doesn't quite resonate with me, but you have to explore. And obviously there's a financial thing to that and you're doing lots of training. But as you know, Dave, explore and find your tribe, find the people that you work with, the techniques, and if you do that, you just become such a better artist for doing that. So I do really encourage you both with Stage Milk, and with other stuff like just explore and try.
David John Clark 00:58:58
Andrew Hearle 00:58:59
David John Clark 00:58:59
And the community is there. It's brilliant. I've made some friends and I just interviewed Stephen Walker two months ago and it was so funny because I opened up with Stephen Walker is a great friend of mine, even though we haven't actually met, we haven't met in person yet, but I consider him a mate because I met him through Greg Apps and then we followed each other through Stage Milk. He's like me, he's imparting his knowledge in that community. And I think the new people that come on board and the younger actors draw on the confidence of everyone that's been in there. And like you said, you don't have to be there every month, some actors come and then they come back and it's great because you see them come back and they say what their journey has been, that they've had to go and do something. And it's great that they come back to this baseline community.
Andrew Hearle 00:59:46
That's what it's all about, really. At the end of the day, I'm kind of glad we haven't gone into this too much, but it comes up all the time. But it is a difficult thing to pursue, especially when you're trying to do it, to live off it or to do it as a career. And I think what will get you through and get you through some of those hard times is that community is that fun is that support. So whether you do end up signing up with Stage Milk or anywhere else, hold onto that and hold on to those friends and treat your friends well and help them and do self-tapes and different things, because that community aspect is very important.
David John Clark 01:00:18
Awesome. Well, thank you very much, Andrew. It's been an absolute pleasure to be on the other side of the camera and get to ask you some questions. So I will see you next week. I'm doing my monthly self-tape. I'm actually doing it with Stephen over Zoom.
Andrew Hearle 01:00:18
Such a pleasure. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. And chat again soon.
David John Clark 01:00:39
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Andrew Hearle 01:00:41
David John Clark 01:00:43
Wow. Just wow. That truly was an awesome chat in my opinion. Andrew's insights into acting in general and with a focus of us late bloomers was just fantastic. It's such a wonderful journey, this acting thing. And regardless of your age now, your age when you started or your age when you took it to the next level, I feel we all go through the same issues, the same concerns, the same oh, my. Am I doing the right thing? Can I be an actor? Andrew has just done a wonderful job of building his online platform with Stagemilk.com. And I have to say, as a two-year member, it's just brilliant. The resources alone all available to anyone online. You don't have to be a member of the drama club. It's just brilliant. But by being a member, you become part of a fantastic community of fellow actors. Newbies oldies, experienced, inexperienced, you name it, they're there. And as a member, the benefits far outweigh the cost. I can attest to that for sure. Each month, the Zoom chats with industry professionals, casting agents, acting teachers, writers, professional actors, to name a few, is just priceless. And every guest gives so much with their time. I walk away from every month with so much more knowledge and confidence to push my acting journey to the next level. In the drama club itself, if you don't do anything else in your acting life, at least here, you submit a self-tape, either a monologue or a scene to a different theme each month or whatever you choose. You're not restricted to the monthly theme, and you receive feedback from Andrew or one of the many talented fellow actors, acting teachers, or casting agents on his team who watch your submission and provide an intensive video feedback of your scene, the good, the bad, and suggestions for moving forward. If you can't do the drama school of three years or you already have and you're struggling to gain traction in your career, this monthly training will push you forwards to your next goal. I can promise you that. And to sign off on this wonderful episode, Andrew has told me that any listener who signs up with StageMilk at Www.stagemilk.com, if you hit the sign-up button on the top right, you'll be able to receive a one on 20 minutes coaching session with Andrew himself. All you need to do after you've signed up is email Andrew at Andrew@stagemilk.com and mention The Late Bloomer Actor podcast. This offer is only available to new members who have listened to this episode.
David John Clark 01:00:43
Thank you for listening in. I'm absolutely loving this journey and looking forward to many more episodes to come. You can follow me on Facebook as The Late Bloomer Actor also on YouTube if you would like to see the video recording of all my episodes and I'm on Instagram as well, please like subscribe and leave a review on your favourite podcast player as well or you can head to Www.podchaser.com and follow the podcast. I think it's the IMDB of podcasts. Again, leave a review for this episode, all my episodes or the podcast itself. I would truly appreciate that. Thank you again and I'll see you on set.