End Of Season Special 2023 with Greg Apps, Jeff Seymour & Tiffany Lyndall-Knight

Are you ready to traverse the ever-changing landscape of the acting world with three industry stalwarts? Allow Greg Apps, Jeff Seymour and Tiffany Lyndall-Knight to guide you through the tumultuous events that shocked the acting world in 2023, including the actor strike in the US and the rising influence of AI in the creative realm. Hear the the group share their perspectives on these events, with Greg offering his insights from a casting angle,Jeff critiquing the fragility of an actor's existence and Tiffany looking out for the young actors just starting on the journey.

Imagine a world where artificial intelligence dominates film-making and actors are replaced by CGI counterparts. Sounds like a scene from a dystopian film, right? But this scary future might be closer than you think. This episode delves into the potential implications of AI infiltrating the acting industry, altering the way films are created, and maybe even giving birth to unique new genres. We also touch on the critical matter of residual payments for actors whose images are used in AI productions and the necessity to uphold the value and respect accorded to actors.

But it's not all gloom and doom. There's a silver lining, too. With the advent of AI, casting could see a revolution, simplifying the process for both casting directors and actors. Self-tapes could be the game-changer, helping actors to showcase their best scenes and, potentially, reducing the role of traditional casting. And while we're on the subject of change, we also discuss the impact of streaming services on actors' pay and the challenges they face in this rapidly evolving industry. So ready or not, the future is here, and it's time to adapt and evolve. Tune in to this riveting conversation and prepare for an eye-opening journey through the future of acting.

Castability 
Castability is a new game changing app that is a must have for every actor.

Castability 
Castability is a new game changing app that is a must have for every actor.

Transcript

David John Clark: 0:45

Hello everyone and welcome to the final episode of the Late Bloomer Actor podcast for season two 2023. I ended season one with this special episode where I brought back three guests from the year, and it was very different to many podcasts that I've listened to and a great success. So here we are again. I would really like to focus on the two biggest issues coming out of the acting world this year, or at the very least, the second half of the year, that being, the actor strike in the US and the, the intrusions for one of a better word of artificial intelligence or AI into the acting world or really into the creative world, not to mention the rest of the world, in all areas of our daily lives. I feel my guests will have some great insights into these issues, so let's just jump straight in. I'd like to welcome back firstly, from season one, episode four, mr Greg Apps. Welcome, greg, and thank you for coming back for this special episode.

Greg Apps: 1:36

Pleasure David.

David John Clark: 1:38

It's great to see you. And secondly, episode one of season two, mr Jeff Seymour, aka the Real Life Actor, it's great to see you too, jeff. How are you?

Jeff Seymour: 1:47

Oh, I'm great, thank you, nice to be here.

David John Clark: 1:49

I was just saying before we hit record. It's so fantastic to have what I consider two of my mentors on the screen at the same time, so this is wonderful, and I just must say that everything that I've taken from my acting journey in the last couple of years since meeting both of you has been fantastic and it's changed the way I act and approach the business. So thank you very much for everything that you've given me over the last few years.

Greg Apps: 2:17

I'm glad you got something out of it.

David John Clark: 2:19

Thank you very much, and we will be having a third guest on. She'll be coming in, probably in about 25 minutes, hopefully from our very last episode, so she's fresh off the boat, as I say, dr Tiffany Lindell Knight. Tiffany will be logging in shortly, as I said, so we'll introduce her when she comes in. So, gentlemen, just quickly, before I throw my questions out to you, can you give the listeners of the world a quick remind of your current role in the industry, your background and what is one thing that you have taken away from 2023? Whether that's good or bad, greg, you want to go first.

Greg Apps: 2:55

Mike. So my background is I started as an actor and then I moved into casting. I've been casting since 82 and have cast, sort of you know, a lot of major films and stuff like that. I mean, you know, I was lucky enough to be the cast one of the Australian casting director on Mission Impossible 2. But I think sort of you know being a casting director on Mission Impossible 2 as a kind of being the stuntman on Muppets it's kind of like it's not really a kind of a key contributor, you know, because it's about the stunts and it's about so long as Tom Cruise is getting to do jump off cliffs and things like that.

Greg Apps: 3:35

But sort of you know, more recently, sort of when the self-tapping age started, I was sort of right at the cold face with regards to, because, you know, I was the one receiving all the self tapes. So it was a natural for me to sort of move into training, online training, online training of people for sort of you know to. Because the thing is, and the kind of the fundamentals thing I want everybody to understand is, is that when you go into the studio, when you go into the studio, you walk into the casting director's creative space when you stand, when you stand in front of your self-tape camera. That's your creative space, as long as you take, as long as you take that creative ownership.

David John Clark: 4:12

So that's what I like to say that we empower actors, but that's me and then sort of you know what was the last bit, one thing to take away from 2023, whether that's good or bad.

Greg Apps: 4:26

The kind of yes, the kind of you know the, the, the technological change, the kind of you know, which came to a head with the strike, both for writers and actors, because to a certain extent I think writers they got to be more impacted than than actors with this AI thing and where that will lead, and to sort of start the discussion. Because until we start that discussion, until we start that discussion, nothing. Let's face it, the streamers aren't going to sort of start the discussion. They're very happy to leave it as the status quo.

David John Clark: 4:55

Exactly, certainly awesome. Thank you very much. It's like with your um self taping you. That was pre-covid, so everyone had to go through COVID, but you saw the writing on the wall, so to speak, and put it in way earlier and and started giving actors training in that area, so that's fantastic. Thank you very much, greg, and and Jeff, quickly for yourself, mike.

Jeff Seymour: 5:16

Yeah, I started acting in 1979 on television here in the States and then in 1980, I started teaching. So I've been a teacher and an actor all these years. What, what did I do in 2023? What did I get? Well, uh, how fragile, you know, an actor's life is if they really count on, if they're really counting on, you know, making money. The fact a strike could happen and then just kind of take everything out and put them in harms way is, uh, it's pretty perilous for many of these people. I mean, luckily, I have my, my, my side hustle as being a teacher, so I've always managed to get on, even though, you know, I did a lot less private coachings for auditions, obviously. But you know, luckily there are a lot of ambitious actors out there that still want to keep the training up for when the strike breaks.

David John Clark: 6:19

That's fantastic, yeah it's an interesting world we live in now, isn't it?

Jeff Seymour: 6:24

It is and this whole AI thing it's, it's, it's. It's interesting. I, the more that I'm aware of it, the more I realize. Every time I'm watching something on social media and someone is narrating, I'm realizing that's an AI voice. Now, and I realize it because they mispronounce words that a human would never mispronounce in the way it's being used in a sentence. That's how I can tell the um. The way that they say a particular word isn't the way you'd say it in that moment. And then I realized, oh, that's a computer doing that right there. Otherwise a human would know. In this particular instance, you would pronounce that word, which might be spelled the same way, differently. And I start catching it all the time. Now, all these voices that I keep hearing that I think are human, speaking to me, with all sorts of different accents and male, female, young, old, I'm realizing, well, most of that is AI, but it gives itself up in this, the way they mispronounce things. So you see it there all the time and I mean, I've been thinking about this AI stuff.

Jeff Seymour: 7:33

I I realized that obviously the ones that are going to be hit the worst are the background performers. I say that only because technology at this point seems that, yeah, they're not really going to be able to. I mean, we've seen this thing recently with Harrison Ford in his latest Indiana Jones, where they made him look young, and with Robert De Niro and whatnot, where AI could take and then model all their past looks and working out. But you know today's still, you know you have to kind of squint your eyes a bit to totally believe it. But there it is and I'm I'm assuming it's just going to get better. I don't think that that is going to be the thing that's going to take over and they're just going to decide they can do that.

Jeff Seymour: 8:15

I think there'll be something for that home cooking of a way an actor in real life is acting but background. That's where most of these people that make their money. Boy, they're really going to be an arms away, because you know people just walking by in the background or sitting in the stands, or you know being in a restaurant. Well, they're fuzzy anyway when you see them, so the chances of them being replicated will be far easier. And there are people, as we all know we have friends, I'm sure, acquaintances, who make their entire livelihood by being background performance certainly, certainly in America.

David John Clark: 8:50

I've heard that, greg. Were you going to comment on that just before?

Greg Apps: 8:54

I was just going to ask Jeff if he thought you know he said those glitches in pronunciation whether he thinks ultimately they will be ironed out and will we be able in the future, will we?

Jeff Seymour: 9:04

be able to tell the difference between AI and real good, I'm sure that you know, just like we learned from the Terminator movies, you know the thing will keep training itself to be able to get the tense of word better. And, and certainly you know, we used AI. I did a play recently and called Seminar by Teresa Rebeck, and we were supposed to read. We're supposed to have in our possession stories written in different genres. This guy had a story about that, she had a story about this, and I said to one of the people putting it together I said you know what, can we just have something there? I mean, I know I'm gonna say my lines anyway and I can make it all up, but wouldn't it be nice to actually have some written stuff? So I know my character wrote something from the.

Jeff Seymour: 9:50

It was like they said what a great piece of writing. It feels very 19th century. And so I read the piece that this guy was able to just go and dial up really quickly. It was amazing how accurately it set the time, the tone, the people, how they lived and then a certain kind of expressive quality that you would attribute to a writer, perhaps, of that time. But having said that, um, it wasn't perfect, you know, I mean it. It felt a little verbose. It didn't have the quality I felt of a human writer, but it certainly was fascinating. I mean it blew me away and how you could just kind of put in genre type in a few details and it would instantly spit out like a six-page story, yeah, with characters and names, and I mean it was, you know, brilliantly quick. But as Greg said, I'm sure they can probably polish it up. I wouldn't necessarily have gone out and bought this story, but boy oh boy, it was shocking and how quickly it could spit something like that out and really make it feel like of the time.

David John Clark: 11:10

I Think the scary thing also is that the amount of data that the computer can process so you can take. We could take Stephen King's books, feed them all into an artificial Intelligence generator and then say, write the next Stephen King book. Now, based on its ability to Absorb everything from those books or his writing style, his character styles as the story, the way he writes his stories, it could write a book that you might then read as Stephen King and go, hey, stephen King's put out this great book, it's fantastic. That's what's really really scary.

Jeff Seymour: 11:42

Yeah, I agree. It's funny, you know, 15 years ago, 10 years ago, if we put this scene we're having right now in a movie, it would feel like a scene in a movie. Where we're talking about AI and how you know. I mean it's just, it's absurd how this is actually happening, because it really does my favorite movies.

David John Clark: 12:02

There's some of my favorite movies where AI is in robot. So I. Jeff, have you done so? Greg, have you? You've been involved in any of those, those type of movies that have predicted what we're now living?

Greg Apps: 12:16

Oh well, you know how many movies have. Yeah, they're doing, you know. I mean, you know back with 2001, which was made in what 80? No, before 84, when, whenever it was made 2001, where hell takes over, hmm, and you know, you said, you turn to how and say how I'll take, I'll take back control now and he said no, you won't, because it's like why? Because how, saying because I can do a better job than you and that's really.

Greg Apps: 12:46

That's really the territory that it's in it's. It's interesting of them. I'm working with Alex Pruitt again on his next film and he did I robot. And I robot, of course, was that there was one rogue, one rogue robot that actually started to think for himself and Then he was able a bit like kind of you know, a union leader, a comb, you know whatever sort of start to gen generate the kind of the support of all the other kind of you know mindless robots. You know it's kind of you know. So therefore, I robot was prescient in terms of sort of you know what's what's happening in the future as well.

David John Clark: 13:24

Hmm, so it's a bringing it up back to the casting process. How do you think the introduction of AI might change the way you were, how casting directors approach, approach, auditions and talent selection? For example, what qualities do you think actors should emphasize, the standout and this like a this landscape, if it changes and goes down this path?

Jeff Seymour: 13:44

I did an exercise.

Greg Apps: 13:46

I did an exercise and I asked for the top ten actors, australian actors that could play a detective, okay, in their 40s. And it ended up with all the usual suspects. It had Nicole Kidman, kate planchette, naomi Watts, roseburn, you know, at male and female, joel Edgerton, hugh Jackman. So I changed it and said give me all the actors that are kind of Australian in their 40s that could play a university professor. Same names, same names.

Greg Apps: 14:17

The point I'm making is they are the people. They are the people that have a profile. If AI's job is to trawl the internet, obviously Roseburn, nicole Kidman, etc. Etc. Kate planchette have far more coverage, profile on the internet. So as far as that is concerned, it's about you know, as Jeff's absolutely right in saying it's background actors, because now they are just a tiny bit, they are a wiper body that goes through. You know you don't need that. So but where I think what it's gonna change is it's going to change the filmmaker thinking, because suddenly they're gonna go how do I make this work for myself? And they're gonna start with the script and they're gonna say that I ask AI.

Greg Apps: 15:04

But there you go, there's an exercise to do for everybody to do. Give me a film that I can shoot entirely on AI. I write the script, write the story and it'll. It'll change the way and I hope. What I'm hoping is that it actually will. It's almost like it'll be a new art form, a New genre, so sort of. We still retain the kind of the essence of human, human Imports in terms of script and kind of performance and and character in films, but sort of you know that there will be this kind of parallel, parallel, kind of you know, creative art of this is an AI product. So I think, you know, in the short term there'll be, there'll be posters that say entirely AI, but then, let's hope back in about five years time, it says entirely done by humans. I love it.

Jeff Seymour: 15:55

It's like the difference between you know, fast food and farm to table. I'm hoping that real actors will be like farm to table. It'll be a thing where it's like it's done totally with real, live actors, written scripts by real people, you know, and, and there'll be something to it, like you're getting organic food, you know, and, and. Then there will be. I'm sure there could be shows With lots of action and robots and things that an AI could conjure, and it would probably make a certain audience very happy. There'll be lots of explosions and crazy things your eyes can't even imagine you're seeing, but I'd like to believe that forever and ever, there will be a desire, a wanting for human made stuff you know, with all of its foibles. That that's I think. I think, just like anything I mean we like for organic, we like farm to table. I'm thinking that'll do there but, the

Jeff Seymour: 16:51

background, the background performers. Let's face it that that's a tough one, you know, because it costs a lot, of course. I think that if they are going to do a thing where they say, look, we're just going to photograph you and now we have your image, now you know, it hit the bricks that of course is to me Insane. I mean, I feel like that, just that can't happen. You've got to the person. If you keep using that image has got to get something, even if it's a few pennies, you've got to get something, definitely, definitely. I mean, the end of the day, they, the computers, are that good.

David John Clark: 17:22

They don't need to scan us in there. Don't need to scan us in. If they want a thousand people in a stadium scene, they'll just make a thousand people. But if they want to try and Maintain that, that human quality, so to speak, and be using their background as actual humans, and certainly, hey, we want to scan you in, we're gonna. But every time we use you, you will earn $100 or a point 001 percent of the budget or something like that, some sort of residual payment, which we'll start talking about later, when tiffin is here, but a residual payment so that every time they use your image, that you get paid and the other thing there.

David John Clark: 17:59

The biggest thing is that, hey, I might be fine with my background image being used for whatever and, um, I mean, obviously I'd be concerned if they used it in certain ways. But, um, I expected, in a couple years time I'm going to be a list actor, so all of a sudden, I don't want them using my background image In a sex scene with monkeys or something, something stupid like that. You know what I mean. So, yeah, exactly, so that's uh, it's really interesting.

Jeff Seymour: 18:29

Yeah, that's, that's a good point. You know, one of the things I saw that they're uh, little up in arms about the actors is the amount and I did a podcast on this I I didn't know if we were going to talk about it but the amount of material that you get for a self-tape now and then wanting to limit that amount of material so that they don't give you five scenes that you're supposed to put on tape, um, and and I have a lot to say about that because you know, certainly Greg would, would know all about this but the biggest reason I think this is well, I know this is happening is because in the old days, when you came into a room, uh, to audition, to audition, well, no casting director would give you five scenes because if you were lousy, two sentences into the first scene, no one wants to sit there and watch five. We know we're not going to use you, it's done, it's over and it. You know, as easy as it may seem for the casting director Albeit, perhaps a crusty one to just say, all right, that's enough, get out of here. Yeah, no one wants to do that. I've sat in a lot of rooms and we have just put up with some bad stuff and it takes everything when they've asked for the like. Can I try it for a third time to say no, you know, we don't want that kind of bad juju in the room. We don't want that energy. We don't want people to feel bad. That's why we look at them and we say thank you very much, it was very nice. We just try and grease them out of the room. You know, nobody wants to tell you how that really felt because it's easier to say great job, thank you, bye-bye, and you're out of the room and we don't have to put up with this sad storm of an actor leaving the room all broken.

Jeff Seymour: 20:16

Once you're in a room, you know any cast or angel. I know when I was casting live for my tv show or my theater, it would be like you know a couple pages, because the fact is you know in a couple. You know as soon as they walk in the room, more or less, and then they start talking and you got a great idea. But with self tape, I think what's happened, and I think it's primarily perhaps it's just I don't know maybe being a little lazy on the producers part when it comes down to deciding a scene and certainly Greg knows more about this than anyone, but I know from my experience you try and find that scene that's going to really let me know whether you can play that part.

Jeff Seymour: 20:55

There's a quality in the script. There's a certain scene and I know for myself, having been the guy in charge, I think, okay, I need to know if they can do this scene and Maybe this scene, you know, but maybe one is good, but there is. There's going to be a crux thing. It might be emotional, it might be where you're supposed to be, whatever that quality is, and let's say, it's in spades in that scene. So I want to see that scene.

Jeff Seymour: 21:20

Well, you know, you have to think about it. You have to sit down, you have to read the script. You know you're casting people, the producer, okay. Well, since you're going to do it, you're not going to come into my office and I don't have to. You know, stop you from doing five scenes. I can just say, uh, yeah, let's give him all five, let's give him all five. What's it to me? Here's what it is to me. I'll watch half the first scene. If I don't like it, I hit delete. I'm done.

Jeff Seymour: 21:46

You might have spent two days memorizing all this stuff, three and a half hours taping it, and I'm just going to look at it and go, oh no, he's a redhead, that's it, that's it. I'm not going to sit and watch all five scenes. If I don't like you, I'm gonna want, I'm just. You know, you're gonna look at their face and go, oh, I don't think so, and then I'm gonna start talking. Let's say they're not that good, bam, I delete.

Jeff Seymour: 22:07

Well, this is great for the producer, it's great I don't have to do anything and I don't have to sit in room and sit and watch five scenes, which I would never do. I mean one of the tricks a casting person does maybe Greg has done this, I've done it where the person's doing you have two scenes, maybe you have three, and they go through the first one and then they go, oh, we're not actually doing the second one. I'm sorry, did you? Did you? And I give you that note. Yeah, we were not yet. See, just try and get yourself out of it, because it's it's a waste of time for everyone and we're always, you know, behind the eight ball trying to get through the casting process.

Jeff Seymour: 22:41

So, but now you can just say Just get my old script, take the whole thing, you know, and that's just because I coach these people and I'll tell you what I've told them. I've said there's five scenes. I say pick your two favorite, put those on tape. Forget the other three. And here's why because I've been a producer. If I watch you and I like you and there's, and I see only two, I'm not gonna suddenly go, oh god, this guy's perfect, but you know what he didn't do. The other three, forget it, I'm more than likely and go, hey, where are the other three? And then I'll say call the agent, find out what's going on. And you know what, we'll sort it out.

Jeff Seymour: 23:25

Now, if you got all the time in the world and you're a great, you memorize great you want to do nothing but put five. See, I do it. But most of the actors I deal with they're like out of family, they got a job, they're going. My god, I gotta get these five scenes. I say pick two out, trust me, if they like you, they're gonna say where are the other ones? What happened? They're not gonna go oh man, he's perfect, but he didn't do what we said. I've never known that to be the case, maybe.

David John Clark: 23:50

Greg will straighten me out here.

Jeff Seymour: 23:53

That's how I've done it.

David John Clark: 23:55

Does that resonate with you, greg? I was going to ask and it's along that same line for self-tapes that self-tapes is given casting directors the ability to see a lot more people because it's faster to just be able to sit down and watch videos. But do you envisage a bit along the lines of what Jeff was saying there, of AI actually taking a bit of that out of your hand and watching the videos for you and then just spitting out the good ones that meet your criteria?

Greg Apps: 24:20

Holy God, no, ai's never gonna judge. Ai's never gonna judge the kind of the work of somebody. Interestingly enough, I saw an article about an art competition that was done earlier this year, about three months ago, and the person who was judged as having the best art then went back and said I'm sorry, I can't accept this award because it was an AI created piece.

David John Clark: 24:43

Was that the beach? The photo of the ocean waves coming in?

Jeff Seymour: 24:46

Something like that. Yeah, I saw that and the photo.

David John Clark: 24:49

Very much so it was beautiful Ah yeah.

Greg Apps: 24:52

So therefore, thank you, a creative person who said fess up time. I didn't do that, but it shows you that sort of there's a piece of work created by AI, judged by humans, that they say that was great work and sure he would have doctored it and done the same kind of Photoshop kind of approach, technique, thinking that sort of photographers take with their work, but it shows that sort of it can go through. But just to sort of touch on Jeff's points, that is the thing and that's what the casting guild of Australia has just sort of recommended and it's certainly happening globally. And starting from the top down, from the top casting directors down is first audition is two pages, three tops, yeah, yes, second audition might be a second thing.

Greg Apps: 25:42

What I also sort of have have a lot of kind of angst with is producers saying I've got to see that big emotional, I've got to see them break down when their son dies, and I'm saying not for the first audition, no, not for the first audition. It's not a test of how good they are, it's a test of what qualities they're gonna bring to the character. So let's do the scene where they sort of where they meet the girl for the first time, because that's where the character wins and the audience is on their side. We like them in that scene. Now we'll work on the kind of now we'll go to the next stage and take them, as Jeff said, with the script and sort of they've got more information about what has to be done, but there has to be limits. There has to be limits for exactly what Jeff says, because it is it's like you know, we don't. I have an analogy.

Greg Apps: 26:37

I have an analogy, which is you're sitting in the theater and an actor comes out and stands front, send a stage and delivers a scene, leaves the stage we all applaud. Another actor comes out, stands in exactly the same spot and delivers exactly the same scene, and that goes on for the entire 90 minute performance that you sit there. At what stage do you go? We've seen better than this, can we? How do we get rid of this guy off stage? You know, that's it in a nutshell, because that's what a casting director's doing. But I've got this all powerful tool, which is called a mouse Click next Next.

Jeff Seymour: 27:16

Yeah, fair enough, I love this Sorry, john Jeff.

Jeff Seymour: 27:19

I know when I would be auditioned. I would try and have an audition, that first one, as Greg said, absolutely a couple of pages. You know I used to have students sit in in my theater auditions and I'd say, you know, as the day went on I'd say when did you know I wasn't gonna use that person, or that person was wrong. It got to the point where they'd say, kind of when they walked in and not because of their attitude or anything, but it became clear what we were looking for. And now does everybody go the other way? Does somebody walk in and I say no, and then they go, whoa. It's rare it happens, but usually you kind of know what you want. So you know it could be something as crazy. As you know, we've already got three redheads. Or that girl doesn't look like his wife, looks like his sister, or just the dumbest thing in the world can preclude you from using an actor and so you can't use them. So, and on tape, if I see it, ah, too bad, let's save it, let's move on.

David John Clark: 29:10

Well, we just had some technical difficulties there, but we're back and we're back with Dr Tiffany Lindell-Knightz is in the room. Welcome, tiffany.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 29:20

Hello hi, how are you all? Hello, fine thanks.

David John Clark: 29:23

Have you met or had any involvement? So we've got Mr Greg Apps, casting Director, out of Sydney, and Jeff Seymour, the real-life actor, out of the LA.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 29:32

I think I've auditioned for Greg once or twice and Jeff, I actually believe I sat in on one of your classes in Vancouver in the late 90s, probably so yeah, really.

Jeff Seymour: 29:45

Yeah, love it, yeah. That was like the first time that I went up to when I started teaching in Vancouver was in 1999, so that you would have been at the first time I went up there.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 29:57

yeah, I think I was, I think I was. Wow, there you go. What was the first?

Jeff Seymour: 30:02

We did just the same. You haven't aged a day.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 30:04

Oh well, the same with you.

Jeff Seymour: 30:06

Oh, thank you. You know I just finished what I was saying, that if I was going really quick, I tried to see one person every five minutes because I'd see a lot of people from my theater, you know, and so you'd only see 12 in an hour and that's if you were really going. That's going, the machine was perfect and you'd bring them in. Hello, how are you? You'd have a little exchange, please. After you and without feeling rushed, I found I could do about one every five minutes with a nice short scene. Well, if you've got self-tapes now, if you could go through 12 in 10 minutes easily, I could just no, no, no, no, no. I mean, unless they were great, then I'd sit and watch them.

Jeff Seymour: 30:45

But that's why I'm sure, and I'm sure Greg would back this up live auditions are just, they're never gonna come back. I mean they might, for if you have a recall, you know you wanna meet the person, absolutely. But the idea of renting a space and paying these people to sit beyond a desk and then you have a filmer and a reader and all this added cost and all these crazy actors running around wondering where the bathroom is, is there any water? You know, doing yoga downward dog in the middle of the floor. I mean no one's gonna wanna go through that anymore and that's the thing that we lost with COVID that I do not believe will ever come back. There's no need for it. You know why would you do it?

David John Clark: 31:26

Yeah, but typically as a heads up. We've just come in, we've been talking about AI essentially, so now that you're here, we'll go back in a sec and start talking about the actor strike and the financial side of things. But from your point of perspective, as the national vice president of the Australian Union, the MEAA, you have unique insights into the union actions. How do you think actors unions can adapt to the challenges posed by AI and other technological advancements while still advocating for the rights of actors? So that sort of led us in. We were talking about how the rules have changed for self taping in minimum two pages, and I asked Greg, just before you came on, whether he thought AI would ever take over assessing self tapes, and Greg was adamant that that would never happen. So what's your views on that from a union perspective?

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 32:16

Gee, that's an interesting perspective of AI assessing self tapes. I agree, I don't think that that would be. I hope that's not possible.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 32:25

The Australian Union, actually. Well, of course we, as we said in our previous meeting, david, the Australian Union stands in solidarity with SAG-AFTRA and we're very grateful to the actions they're taking because they you know where America steps, the rest follow. But we do have some distinctions. The Australian agreements film and television agreements actually specify that you can't use somebody's image outside of that particular contract without permission. So we're really grateful for that and I wonder if that, you know, that sort of protection is a result of just a general Australian awareness that we have to protect our. It's like we have to protect our flora and fauna, we have to protect our artists. So yeah, I'm not sure where it's gonna go.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 33:16

I read an interesting article not long ago suggesting that the industry will change in a way that we have a more diffuse industry, so we have smaller studios located in different regional areas and you actually have like an ensemble that work full-time as actors, making less money than the celebrities, but on a regular, you know, on a regular wage, and this ensemble then basically work as well. They can use skins to embody all sorts of different ages and ethnicities and character types, and this in this article is a medium article. Was you know thinking this was gonna be a great thing because it's gonna mean that it provides more actors a working living on a, you know, sort of a nine to five basis, and you know, I suppose there's you know there's an argument for that, but it feels pretty idealistic to me, to be honest, and I still think we need to be promoting all diversities to actually have the work. It's pretty cynical to have, you know, a small group of people who then just wear the mask.

Greg Apps: 34:33

It's interesting. Interesting.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 34:35

I know.

Greg Apps: 34:36

And one of the things, one of the things that just to sort of pick up on that whole thing of sort of, you know whether AI will judge auditions, I think you know. For me there is a kind of and this comes down to sort of all the people it's grown and grown and grown. I did a film called Rompestompa many, many, many years ago in the end-proof, and what I did was is the producer, the director and myself and my assistant set in a room and we chose the actors and that was it. The filmmaker chose who the characters were. These days there's casting by committee. These days it's kind of you know and it's you know, I call it casting the poster, you know, because you're casting the names that sit on the poster and there's so many people and the people that are making those decisions they're not filmmakers, they're deal makers.

Greg Apps: 35:22

And they're the ones and that's what I think the essence of the kind of the strike has got to be all about which is it's the kind of the creative people who all sort of want the status quo of, sort of you know, creativity of not just the performer but the person who is in judgment of that. But it's the deal makers who want to go no, no, no, we can make a buck here. We can, kind of you know, we can, sort of you know, find a way to do this cheaper, cheaper. You know where that's their priority. And that's the kind of you know what has to be regulated, even if it's something that has to be, sort of you know, at government level.

David John Clark: 35:58

So that sort of brings everything into perspective about what the SAG-AFTRA is fighting for in the US and I believe they may have gone back into the room was the last advice I've heard. What's everyone's views on? Where they see us needing to be in a worldwide context, but also in the US being the biggest market? What do we need to see? What big changes do we need to see so actors can actually feed themselves? I think that's the biggest issue.

Greg Apps: 36:28

I think the essence of the strike or the kind of the and it's been happening for a while, but it's kind of you know it's death by a thousand cuts.

Greg Apps: 36:36

It's like with the streamers, whereas in the past, and certainly in the Australian award as well, sort of you know you were bought out for, sort of you know, one screening plus four repeats, and it was how many times you were seen. But the kind of the deal with streamers and what streamers have taken over with streamers, it's kind of something can be seen again and again and again and again and again and there isn't a reflection. So, in effect, the actors are being bought out for that streamer, and that's the kind of the issue. And, as I say, the big companies are starting to get used to that. They kind of quite like that deal. So therefore, and that's the kind of you know the issue that's at stake here, and, yes, not before time, is it kind of you know, in our front and center. But this is from a layman who I'm not privy to the kind of the day-to-day of the strike, but that's where I'm seeing it from where I sit.

David John Clark: 37:28

Mm Tiffany, what's your perspectives there? I think we talked about it a little bit about to the millions and millions of people that are subscribing to all these streaming networks at $16 a month. So, whereas actors before, in the old days they would be paid residuals every time it was shown on NBC or another network because they were getting advertising, but now they're not getting anything. So if the TV show crashes and burns, I've got no problems with actors not receiving any money. But if you're streaming a show and there's millions of people watching it and the streaming companies are taking $16.95 a month from each person, then surely there needs to be a way to remunerate those actors because of their show is making the success and bringing in more people who are becoming more subscribers.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 38:14

Well, I mean, I guess, I mean I echo Greg, I don't know the nuances of all the industrial models or the economic models, but there has to be a sort of a change in the way we quantify what's being seen. Netflix does not disclose, as I understand it, what their biggest hits are or how many things are actually being viewed, so I don't know, and I don't really know, how they're able to get away with that or what the regulatory model is that we can't indicate that. I think it's interesting that A24 has exceeded to all the requests, so actors are still working for A24. So, and that's a huge industry, and I think that it shows that there are ways forward with newer, hungrier industries. So maybe what we'll be seeing is new studios breaking through this and being more conciliatory and a little bit less greedy. But I think that ultimately, it's about having to look at how you. We have to look at how we quantify success in a different way If Netflix is not a new industry.

Greg Apps: 39:26

Absolutely excellent.

Jeff Seymour: 39:28

Because the money's dead. I think getting something is important. Didn't we just see that? Suits, what was it like? A billion hours, it was some ridiculous amount of time and people had been streaming suits and none of those people were getting any money for it, including me, because I didn't even think about that till right now. But yes, I did a suit. I think you need to get something. I mean, obviously, if these people are making something, something is something. I mean I still get residuals from the Jeffersons from 1981 or something I did a homeland in 2013, and every so often I get a check for something. I mean I can take myself out to dinner someplace nice. I have friends that work so much they live on their residuals and it seems fair. I mean, we were part of it. We made it together because of my performance, along with everyone else's good hard work, people watch it. Yeah, I get it with streaming, I get it. Maybe that percentage is less, but even when I received one, I've got one right here for $9.15 from somebody.

Jeff Seymour: 40:45

And you know what? I appreciate the effort, I appreciate the fact. That makes me feel like, all right, then you're paying attention and you're still breaking me off a piece and, yeah, the streaming thing. That definitely has to be worked out. That just doesn't seem fair that you could, because somebody's making a ton of money and it's not like when you do. It's not like when I did suits. They said, hey, here's an extra bonus amount and we're just gonna have it forever. All right, you don't get anything. I mean, in Canada that's what they do. They pay you a buyout. You get your daily rate plus 150 and 130%, so $1,000, so maybe plus $1,300. And then, theoretically, that's it. You're done by buy. But even there, I believe after five years or six years if it's still running, they then have to get into a residual program with you. So I mean, it's just what's fair is fair. So let's just figure that out. Otherwise, yeah, because come on, just like you said, if it's 16.95 times 200 million, that adds up, you could live on that.

David John Clark: 41:54

And the juices. Sorry, Go on Tiffany. No, you're on Tiffany.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 41:59

Just another aspect to it is that, with the preponderance of streaming services now, there is so much content being pumped out there, which is great in theory, but we're also noticing that people are being overworked, crews are being overworked, that we're seeing a lot of non-union shows being produced, and that's where we're starting to see dangerous practices happening. So I think, as an entire model, this is a result maybe of COVID as well. We all were just so desperate to have content and so everyone sort of jumped on the streaming bandwagon. But I think there is gonna be something of a reckoning where we're just we're overglotted right now with content and it needs to be sort of looked at at a holistic level about the training involved and the safety practices involved and we're spreading ourselves too thin maybe, greg, do you see that on your casting side of more expectations from producers, more they want, more from you for less and more from their actors, et cetera, et cetera.

Greg Apps: 43:06

There's a kind of you know the hierarchy. I mentioned Romper, stomper, where the four creative people attached to the casting made the decision made. But these days there's so much, there's so many suits, there's so many suits involved. It's from the top down. And suddenly, you know, you're getting producers coming to me and sort of, yeah, we could have Kate Blanchett in the lead. But suddenly they come to us and say do you reckon we can get Hugh Jackman? And it's like we don't need Hugh Jackman, he's not right for the part, there's somebody better for you. Do you know what I mean? There's this pressure from the top. It's this kind of top down kind of you know pressure of we need more and let's get more, because of the kind of the pressures that are on its kind of you know, film markets, where sort of you know, because these, what are these sales agents doing? They're saying, okay, I've got Kate Blanchett and Hugh Jackman, they can now sell that film with a poster. They'll go to their art department and say, dummy, I have a poster and they'll send that to the distributors and they'll sell the film and sort of abrogate their risk, their entire risk, in a morning with a few emails.

Greg Apps: 44:18

And it's that thinking and it is. It's to do with the greed, the corporate world. Sorry, I'm gonna digress now, but sort of you know, I had this theory that it goes back to the kind of you know, the Margaret Thatcher kind of Ronald Reagan era where they said it's top down economics, it's trickle down economics, that'll never work. Well, it'll never work for us. It works for if you're at the top, trickling down, but it's kind of like you put more money in the pocket of the kind of the suits they're not gonna share it, and that's the kind of thinking. So I don't know how to police that. I don't know how to do that. It's kind of, you know, because they're the ones that sign the checks. So then it's got, the gold makes the rules.

David John Clark: 45:00

Yeah, it's interesting and we talk about fairness, don't we? In finances and money and stuff like that, and it just the people with all the money and the people that make all the profits. They certainly don't want to make it fair, because that takes more of their profits away.

Greg Apps: 45:13

So Well, they too are answerable. They're answerable for the shareholders, and that's the kind of the justification of everything Qantas and Alan Joyce has done as well. The shareholders are happy, it's like no, because the customers aren't.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 45:29

That's right. That's right, and the customers in our industry won't be happy if there's no content being made. Well, I guess they'll be happy with reality television for a little while. But you know, I guess that is where the change is happening. That is why it is exciting to see this industrial action happening, and that is the way you push back. So it's an exciting time. It's an exciting time it is.

David John Clark: 45:51

If it comes out with the right answers, it'll be great.

Jeff Seymour: 45:55

Almost all the time. I mean I know I started in 79. I think there was a strike in 1980 and in 86. And then this one. I mean there have been commercial actor strikes and other strikes, but I mean pure actor. I think it was 80, 86, and now 2023. That's a long time for us to ask for more money to go in between.

Jeff Seymour: 46:24

Yeah, I remember, I just started and a crazy thing was my obviously young buck and I remember my agents came to me in 1980. I just started, I just started to work and then it stopped and they actually said to me would you be willing to do a Playgirl spread for 2000 bucks?

Greg Apps: 46:47

Yeah, I get asked that all the time.

Jeff Seymour: 46:53

I said, no, I don't think so, but thanks for asking.

David John Clark: 46:59

It could have been the career changer right there Jeff.

Greg Apps: 47:01

Yeah, you know, where you would have been now.

Greg Apps: 47:04

I think there is like what streamers has done and sort of you mentioned. There's been no strike action for sort of you know, possibly you know your 30, 40 years, and it's perhaps because what's happened with the streamers is there's more quantity and so sort of. You know, we've all been lulled into a false sense of security because we're all doing well, because there's lots of work, we're fighting the you know, and with the Casting Guild of Australia we fight for sort of you know, this kind of minimum, because it's really easy to push fees down. You know, because there's somebody will go I'll do it cheaper, I'll do it cheaper, and you know. So it's kind of we've got to maintain the quality and we've got to, and because of the quantity, as I say, there's so much being made. But it's really easy to be lulled into a false sense of security and say I'm doing okay, but in reality actors are not making any more money than they did back then.

Jeff Seymour: 48:50

No, and everything costs more and you know you look at whatever fee you get and after you take everything out of it. I mean you pay your rent and you have a eat a steak and it's gone. I mean it's to make a living in the industry without the money going up a bit. And they're asking for more, certainly, but it's not an egregious amount. It seems fair what they're asking for, do you guys think?

David John Clark: 49:13

that this, this financial pressure on actors around the world now does it. They'll be having an effect on their artistic creativity. You know they're taking on multiple jobs of working outside of the industry in between roles and then, when they are getting the roles, they're financially worse off because they've obviously can't do their secondary employment. So do you see or do you feel that this would have an impact on actors' creativity and then force, coming back to AI, then have the streamers and that justifying more so, oh, that's why we're using AI.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 49:52

I don't know. I mean I was. You know it's interesting hearing Jeff's perspective about the industry and you know, based in the States and I it was a great shock to me to come from Vancouver where I was working in film and television, but you know, fair amount and to to Australia and realize that you know the income here is is it's minuscule compared to what I was offered a series, regular, you know, and it was a television series I brought. I brought it back to my agent in Vancouver and I said this is, this is what they're offering. She's like that's all right for a weekly rate and I was like no, no, no, that's for the whole season. It's entirely different because the market is so small compared to North.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 50:33

America. So we all, we all have to we all have to have another job, like really like the vast majority. And you know, in Vancouver it was still felt like, oh, you don't have a job, you're not really making it, but here everyone does, and I think that's the other things that I do enrich me as a, as a person and and enrich my understanding of the human condition to bring back to my art, like that's what I probably justified anyway. But that's the reality you know I did.

Jeff Seymour: 51:07

I was a series lead in a one hour show in Toronto and it went really well. And in the first season I got the best you know, dramatic actor, what they give you their, their form of an Emmy. And I remember going to my agent and saying, well, look, I mean, you know the show's still going. I mean, how much money could we get? I mean, if they all, if people came into the streets and started yelling my name and everybody went crazy, how much is the most money we could get? And he gave me the most ridiculously low figure and I said, well, why?

Jeff Seymour: 51:43

He said, well, look, there's 300 million people in America. That's the advertising dollar. There's 30 million total in Canada. There are more people in the state of California than there are in all of Canada. One tenth the advertising dollar, one tenth the income. It's. It's it that there is no money. That's just how it is. So America is certainly an anomaly because we now have 335 million people or whatever it is. So, yeah, you can get a little more and I totally understand why Australia and why, why Canada can't, but you can't really make a living, you know, like a big living, unless you become a movie star and you start working for American producers. Otherwise you can make a decent living. I mean, it's okay, you know, but it'd be just like having a job anywhere else. When it comes to the creative, arts, though really that's.

Greg Apps: 52:40

That's the kind of the way it is, I think. I think there's a kind of a you know, the top half of the top two or 3%, be it art, be it composing, be it kind of you know whatever they make really, really good money. And then there's probably another lot that make a good living but the vast majority don't. One thing I want to say, because then I'll just touch on what David said, and it talked about time and having other jobs. I was, I was working with Rachel Ward on a series and she said I gave her the list of names in the afternoon and she said I think we need to come back, I think we need to go a little bit older. Can we have a look at a little bit older? I said, okay, I'll get you a list by the morning and she said, no, I don't want it in the morning, I want it in two days time. I want you to think about it, I want you to to do your job, to be creative, and that's another issue. That sort of touching on the kind of the self taping is. The point I would make is actors need to, even if they have another job. What they need to do is they need to commit to the creative.

Greg Apps: 53:46

So often I think sort of actors, when they approach self taping, they think the key is to get the, to get the lines down and to do the lines and to do a kind of an error free test rather than give it some thought when can I take this? Where can I take ownership? And that's the creative spirit. That's the kind of the territory. It's really easy, you know. No, it's not really easy. I beg your pardon, but for a writer to write something from a hallmark sort of program, a kind of a, you know, you know, a family kind of drama or something like that it's, I would think it was easy, but sort of you know, to write something that's really kind of, you know, got depth of character and dimension and all that kind of stuff, some of the great stuff we see coming out of Europe. Here I say you know it's, it takes time.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 54:36

When I was back in Vancouver recently I had a friend who's doing loads and loads of self testing and he said he's noticing that with younger actors, come in. He's had directors say to him geez, they give such an immaculate self test but then they come to set, you know, and they can't take direction because they can't shift, because they're, they're polished or something, but they haven't had the opportunity to be in the room. Is that something that you've come by? Any feedback from directors yourself?

Greg Apps: 55:07

I haven't had it with feedback. I mean, to a certain extent it's casting to type, isn't it? It's kind of you know the, the actor type is sort of what they put on camera and you get to know, you know it's. It's like so for the bigger roles, series, you know series, regular series, kind of you know that kind of thing. That's where you do another test and I mean, often I will go to the director and say, can we, can we get them to put down that scene and just ask them to do something different? And it's more so, and it's not so much to test the actor, it's more so that the director now is on set informed and knows the I'll call it the limitations of the actor, the limitations of the actor and sort of what they can give. Because I mean, to a certain extent it's casting to type.

Greg Apps: 55:52

You know, when I did Chopper, there's a lot of real, there's a lot of real criminals in Chopper. We haven't got a range. But as far as creating that community you can't beat it. It's kind of like you know it is that community and that's that. There's dirt under their fingernails.

Jeff Seymour: 56:10

Yeah, yeah, I have something to say about that. Actually, I I'm on a crusade about the very thing you're talking about and it's part of my training and it comes from the fact that you know I also act and my observations of having been a director and been on sets is the actor's superpower is their ability to take direction. I don't care what you brought to the set, it doesn't matter to me at all. This is what I tell people all the time. I mean, maybe you'll bring it to set and we won't say a word and it's exactly what we want. But that's not very often. I find the biggest hangup is the actor's inability to change, and I draw an analogy with dancers. I say you got to be like a dancer. I'm going to give you new choreography and a five, six, seven, eight, I'm going to show it to you once like a director asking you to do it. And now you need to do it.

Jeff Seymour: 56:58

Most actors can't change and it happens because they're it's usually an insecurity they're, they're, they're thinking everyone's looking at them and the thing they brought to set, now no one. You know that no one likes what they're doing, so now they feel under the gun, so then they end up taking what they did and then they just try and alter it slightly. You know they try and get louder with it or something. And I say to them look, take that and throw that in a bin, forget it, it doesn't matter, you are a superhero on a set If you can take direction immediately, and I mean 180. You do the exact opposite thing. I got a job once in some show and it was a big nice part and the guy who was reading was a friend of mine and they had all the a Canadian actors in for this role. He told me I was the only one who changed when the guy said change. I know my mind.

Jeff Seymour: 57:56

I thought you got the best actors in Canada coming in here and that's because people are so afraid rather than don't worry about it. On any set I've ever been, if the All the cast you know cast the crew sitting around, if you have an act, I don't care what you bring in. But then the directors say do this for me. And then you do it. Oh, you're like a hero. Everybody loves you, man. They don't care what you. We can't even remember what you brought in, it doesn't matter.

Jeff Seymour: 58:22

One of the things I tell actors all the time is I Say never, ever, worry about anything that's going on other than listening to what's being told you and do it and and. So in my class I always say 50% is acting theory and 50% is you taking direction from me. That's it. So whether I give you direction, it's good or bad, it doesn't matter, because in this dojo the exercise is do what I say right now. Show me what that's like, and you're gonna build a muscle. That actors need to build and that, to me, is the weakest muscle the actor has is their ability, like a dancer, to take this new choreography and do it right now. And if you can do that, or you're always gonna be a hero on a set, and that that is a problem.

Greg Apps: 59:09

So, speaking to what Greg just said, what you just said, absolutely Speaking to what Tiffany just said, that that skill is hidden in a self-tape.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 59:19

That's right. That's right Because I I teach. Now to a bit, jeff. And that's exactly what I I work with as well is like give yourself permission To release that choice that you, you know, you honed that choice and you love that moment. And then when we say, do it differently, they'll just, they'll still hold that moment, you go no, no, no, each moment's got to be fresh, try again, try again, try again.

David John Clark: 59:42

And it's amazing.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 59:44

If you don't get the opportunity to flex that muscle in an audition room. It's very hard to then move to those moments where you get to be the recurring part, the series lead, if you haven't had that chance to have.

David John Clark: 59:59

Yeah, and that makes it the same. Bring it back to self tapes, because we don't. We're not in the room anymore, we can't have that redirection. So I I deliver something on myself tapes and I find I'm not the most creative person, but I take direction really well. So if I was in the room with an audition and I delivered it the way I wanted to see it and then Greg turned around, I said no, I want to see more anger here. He's more emotional. I can switch on the dime, I believe, and deliver it. But the problem with self tapes is you don't get that opportunity. You get to send one or two takes and if you don't cut it, you don't get the chance for Greg to turn around.

Greg Apps: 1:00:34

I think you've got it this way no this is survival of the fitness.

Jeff Seymour: 1:00:39

You know what time. And I say well, that that's what it is. Everybody, it's a level playing field. You're all gonna take your opportunity, do what you think, and that's it. So you don't get to redirect, but nobody gets a redirect, so you just use your best ability to do it. That's it.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:01:00

Yeah, do you like a couple of versions, greg, when people are selling, sending and self tests, or do you? Is it too? You don't have time? Do you just need the one?

Greg Apps: 1:01:08

I did ask on the most recent film I've just done. I asked for two takes of each scene and sort of, and make it different, great, typically to make it different, and so you know so, and if you've only got two pages, you can ask for multiple takes, yeah, you know when you've got all made in 11 pages and saying and give me two versions of each scene.

Jeff Seymour: 1:01:30

I Because I'm an old Two takes, I'd never do it. I give you one, that's it. I just say that's my take, that's my idea, and I know I know that might limit me, but that's how it is. I just go no, that's all right. I, this is what I think. If you like it, you'll hire me. If not, because I find if I have an idea about something Unless they specifically say, hey, I'd like to see one with you know really this, and then the other one's really that, then I'll do it. But I don't like to sit around and think, well, how can I do this differently? I, I just I just don't do it.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:02:03

That's me.

David John Clark: 1:02:07

They know your reputation, it's Jeff Seymour, but for young actors we need to be, Jeff, you just said it then when I was saying how I'm not in the room anymore, but well, that's the way it is. And this brings it all the way back to where we've been talking about AI and and the changes in the strike and where the acting industry is going is that we need to Not complain about where the where it's going. We need to ride with it and learn. How do I use this change in a positive way for myself? What do I need to learn as an actor or as a casting director or as a teacher, to address these claims and make it work for me? Is that? Is that a good way to look at it?

Jeff Seymour: 1:02:50

Of course, this is survival of the fittest. Now, you know, when somebody says, boy, this is a really hard scene, I go, yeah, well, it's hard for everyone. So, so you know, good, this is these dialogues really hard. I go well, it's really hard for everyone. So you're gonna be the one that's gonna show us how to make this stuff pick up off the page and fly. You've got to make the difference. So now it's up to us. Nobody said it was easy. I mean, you get in this business. It's like you're treated like royalty. It shouldn't be easy. It's like going and buying one lot of ticket. You know, when you go, hey, what happened? I didn't win. I mean it's supposed to be hard. It's. It's the craziest industry in the world. And when you get the work, it's like it's crazy how wonderful it is. So it's gonna be hard, and accept that it's gonna be incredibly difficult and you're gonna be the one that wins. The iron man.

Jeff Seymour: 1:03:35

You know the capital on or whatever it is, that's just how it has to be. There's the attitude you have to add.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:03:41

Yeah, I hope that. I mean I hope that AI being based in South Australia. I hope that self-testing in theory is an opportunity for people who aren't based on the East Coast to be seen. I think that's still a long way coming to be, honest.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:03:58

I know it's hard for production companies to go yet we want to see now and expect someone to fly right in. But in theory it should make greater accessibility and give casting directors an opportunity to see faces that they wouldn't otherwise. So that's my hope for it. But I certainly do say to my students that you know your job is auditioning the booking, the gig. That's the bonus, but your job is to audition and to audition well and to build those relationships with casting directors so that they can know you and trust you and bring you in. So you know, if you get one, great, but then just go and do the work and do the next one, and the next one, and the next one. Greg, do you have?

David John Clark: 1:04:37

a. Do you have a closing comment along that line as well?

Greg Apps: 1:04:39

then I'll just pick up on what Tiffany said about sort of opportunities from sort of you know, markets that aren't kind of Sydney and Melbourne, which are the main two markets. Certainly it comes out, you know, because if you don't get the self-taping experience you have, you don't come over well in that form. The other thing is is if you're going for sort of a supporting role. The problem with a supporting role is it might have sort of you know, six or eight days through a series or a film, but unless it's in one, in one section that might be three or four different flights and accommodations. So there's that puts a lot of pressure on the production.

Greg Apps: 1:05:14

I'm forever trying to sort identifying in the script the character that might have three great scenes but they're all in the same location. So I know they're going to be shot out in a day or two and you can bring and therefore I can look at people from all around the country or New Zealand because of the fact that I know they're going to come in and go out and the kind of the cost of the kind of the accommodation, airfares is negligible compared to casting a local. But it's when they've got three or four Days across a kind of a four, five week period, that's when it becomes a problem.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:05:49

That's really useful insight actually. Thanks, greg, because even for you know, for people here, for students and for locally based people to talk to their agents and go like Work on our side to do the same thing and identify the ones where you know really quick, pitch us For that one that maybe they just fly us in for those three days, that's, that's great insight.

Greg Apps: 1:06:07

Thank you, and I say, if you're an Adelaide, you better have a great relationship with Ange, because you know she's. She's normally the kind of the link to the kind of yeah, yeah.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:06:21

Yeah, yeah, Well, of course, but that's what I'm saying. It's kind of you know it's.

Greg Apps: 1:06:26

It's about sort of Grinding the in. That's right, that's exactly how Thank?

David John Clark: 1:06:32

you very much guys.

Tiffany Lyndall-Knight: 1:06:33

Um, this is Absolutely fantastic.

David John Clark: 1:06:39

The technical glitches aside, which is the joys Um, maybe I will fix that up in the future. Um, thank you very much, jeff. I'm coming in from LA. It's been a pleasure to see you again. I'm over there in January, so I'll make sure I chase you up and get a ride in your car. Hopefully so Well, hopefully I won't be here because I'm on the. I'm on the hook right now.

Jeff Seymour: 1:06:57

If things go according to plan, I'm going back to and I'll be doing a Broadway show and I'm supposed to find out any moment, so I will hopefully not be here to see you Take it. Oh, I think it's crossed for that.

David John Clark: 1:07:13

You know, I originated a role last two years ago there.

Jeff Seymour: 1:07:15

That was a big hit. Then they told me they had to give it that part to a movie star and apparently the movie star turned them down. So now they're calling me and saying which you still be interested? And I said yes, of course. So Hopefully I'll be leaving you in a few weeks and um, and I'll miss you again, but uh, unless I'm in New York for Christmas, so maybe you never know we started in New York and we got a plan on seeing you there.

David John Clark: 1:07:37

Let's do that instead. Love it, let's get that.

Jeff Seymour: 1:07:38

Thank you very much.

David John Clark: 1:07:40

Right, thank you Absolutely pleasure to see you again.

Jeff Seymour: 1:07:42

Tiffany.

David John Clark: 1:07:42

Thank you very much. I know you were on last month. It's great, yeah, thanks guys, see you. Bye everyone, bye, bye, bye.