Right For The Role with John Frank Levey

S02E04: Discover the secrets behind the casting director's creative process in our fascinating conversation with John Frank Levy, a veteran LA casting director with over 35 years of experience and author of Right for the Role. We dive into John's illustrious career, passion for people and their stories, and how he transitioned from directing theatre to casting. Listen as we discuss the importance of community in successful productions and share insights from John's travels to Australia.

As we explore the ever-evolving world of casting, John reveals the impact of the digital revolution on the casting process and the significance of talent, personality, dedication, and preparation. Learn about the effects of self-taping on actors and the essential role of human connection in storytelling. We also delve into character development, branding, and understanding oneself as an actor to deliver captivating performances.

Finally, join us as we discuss the challenges of typecasting, finding the right role, and navigating the Australian acting community. John shares his thoughts on his book, Right for the Role, and the difficulty of entering the American market without an American accent. We wrap up by touching on John's plans for retirement, appreciation for Australian actors, and his upcoming travels to LA and New York. Don't miss this opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of the casting director's creative process!

You can follow John on Instagram and you can purchase a copy of his book in all formats including digital via Amazon.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Insights From a Veteran Casting Director
• 9:05 Acting, Character Development, and Branding
• 16:10 Acting and Finding the Right Role
• 16:14 Casting in the Digital World
• 22:51 Retirement and Appreciation for Australian Actors

Transcript

David John Clark
Host
00:00
Hello everyone. Today I am really excited to present to you Mr John Frank Levy. He's a Los Angeles casting director of 35 plus years and known for such iconic shows as ER, the West Wing and one of my favorites, shameless. John has just released a book called Right for the Roll, hence the name of the episode. But, as we find out in this interview, the book isn't primarily about actors being right for the role, as one might assume by the title, but so much more. My biggest takeaway from the book and this interview that you're about to listen to would have to be John's discussions about community and how a great collaborative community of people they bring about the success of a production And, having been involved in many productions myself, there were also a great community of actors and filmmakers and crews and supporters. I can attest to John's views on this. If you're keen to check out the book, you can find it at most good bookstores or online at Amazoncom or, for us Australians, amazoncomau. It's in paperback, hardback and digital versions, which we do talk about a lot now the differences between paper and digital in this world. I hope you enjoy it and, if you can, i'd love to hear your thoughts via my social media channels at the Late Bloomer Actors or you can throw me an email at thelatebloomeractorcom. 

01:20
Now here we go with John Frank Levy. I hope you enjoy. Well, welcome to the show, john. It's just awesome to have you here today. I've recently finished reading your book Right for the Role. It's a wonderful insight into your 35 years as a casting director for some of the world's most iconic television series, including ER and the West Wing, and certainly one of my favorite shows, shameless. I certainly want to dive into these and get some insights into the creative process of casting directors in these brilliant productions. But firstly, can you give a quick insight into your career as a casting director? What has been your driving factor behind such a successful career? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
02:02
Well, i think the thing that has driven me the most is my love of people and my love of their stories and my interest in exposing the inside of human interaction and conflict and collaboration and all of it. I've always really been fascinated by everyone else and wondering what they're thinking. I've spent time if I'm on a train or a plane or a restaurant, but if I'm by myself, i'm actively thinking about ooh, what's his backstory? What's he doing here? What's he thinking about? And so I think that fascination has given me an insight into the characters that we've been casting and helped me to have a clear sense of it. 

David John Clark
Host
03:01
Awesome, awesome. And you've been doing the role of a casting director for 35 plus years now. is that correct? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
03:08
Yeah, i started gosh. I don't really even know, maybe 1985 or six. 

David John Clark
Host
03:18
Wow, wow, And I don't know give away your age or anything, but so what did you do before you got into casting? Have you always been in the creative industry? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
03:28
Yeah, i was a director in the theatre before I got into casting. When I was a young director in the theatre, i didn't know what a casting director was until I encountered one at the Mark Taper Forum, which is Los Angeles's number one equity theatre, and I worked on a lot of new plays while I was there And there was a person from the literary department at Dramaturk and a casting director who brought actors to my attention And I was the director, and then there was the playwright, and so I learned that a casting director was a crucial piece of the creative puzzle. 

David John Clark
Host
04:10
Awesome, awesome, and you didn't look back. I read in your book that once you got into that you'd found your niche, and obviously, 35 years later, you're still doing it, so you must love it. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
04:24
I do love it very much. It's been gratifying creatively And it's been a wonderful opportunity for me to grow and change as a person through all of the experiences that I've had as a casting director. You know I did look. I do look back occasionally And I have directed plays over all of the years since then as well, because it is also a love of mine. But I've just been so fortunate to be well. the title of the book is Right for the Role. I was fortunate to find the role that I was right for. I love it. 

David John Clark
Host
05:06
I love it And we were talking just before we started recording that, so you're currently in Los Angeles. Have you always been Los Angeles based? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
05:15
No, i grew up in New York City in the Bronx, a place called Riverdale, and we threw a private school there and onto university in Rochester, new York, where it snows all the time, and then spent some years in and around upstate New York, western New York, and then got married and moved to Los Angeles. I think it was 1973. 

David John Clark
Host
05:46
And have you ever mided out to Australia, either for holiday or in a professional capacity? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
05:51
I didn't get there professionally but I did go there with my son, when he was nine I guess, and my mom And we were in Sydney where she had some friends. And then we took the train to Brisbane and up to the Gold Coast And my son went snorkeling off the boat there And that was the longest half hour of my life waiting for him to come back to the surface. 

David John Clark
Host
06:22
Oh, wow, wow, That's awesome. How old was your son then? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
06:26
I think he was about nine. 

David John Clark
Host
06:28
Oh, no wonder you were nervous. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
06:31
Awesome. 

David John Clark
Host
06:32
Awesome. I want to go straight into your book, obviously, because I've just read and it's just. It's such a wonderful insight into your journey as a casting director And I just can't get over the number of actors that you've been involved with on your on your journey, actors that were probably considered almost nobodies then and now they're just such iconic actors. One of your first discussions was about China Beach. You talked about an actress that didn't fit the haircut principle. You know, simply, you shouldn't look like you need one or you just had one, you should be just natural. You were talking about her audition, where she did an energy conjuring dance, for one of a better word, and this was the reason she didn't get a look in. In your view, as a casting director, how important is it to show in an audition your professionality or your ability to work collaboratively with everyone on set and and not be that actor Actors, i suspect. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
07:31
Yeah, well, you know that story is iconic for me because that was an actress that I had touted heavily to the director, and what became clear was that she brought her process into the room instead of her work into the room, if you can see a distinction between those two things. And what she indicated by doing that sort of energy conjuring dance was that she wasn't going to be ready to go when we needed to be. And you know, television is about being deep, reliable and fast. You've got to be all three of those things, and if your process is going to dominate the overall process in a way that's going to slow things down, that's information that probably precludes you. 

David John Clark
Host
08:28
And that that goes across the board. not to just know no name actors to to big name actors. you talked about Gary Busey, i believe, and I think he got a role in Oh, just trying to remember, shameless. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
08:41
It was Shameless. 

David John Clark
Host
08:43
And, and you said that, not to not Gary Busey, but he was tough on set. Is that correct? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
08:51
Yeah, it's the only time in the 11 seasons that Bill W H Macy called me to say anything other than what a great job I had done. Wow, He was very displeased with Gary. It was in the height of the pandemic And I guess Gary didn't want to follow the policies and procedures of relating to masks And also he was underprepared. And I think you know it's not altogether, it's not just Gary. I think sometimes we make people feel so special as they become important stars that we sort of give them permission to behave any damn well the way they feel like, And that's how people develop reputations. 

David John Clark
Host
09:45
Yeah, that's unfortunate. That sort of leads into my next question a bit, because you were talking about for Westwing at your rat party for season two. you talk about community a lot, So how everyone got together in your rat party and people saying, oh, it's just the movies spending all their money and free drinks and free food, but everyone coming together at the end of that season. Can you tell me how much does a good or a bad committee on a set of a show affect the final outcome of it? Does it define the success of a show? do you think? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
10:18
Well, i mean, i think you can overcome a lack of community if the writing is great, the directing is great and the acting is great and everybody else is doing their job. But the chances of that are diminished. And one of the wonderful opportunities that I've had and that I talk about in the book is to be part of a collaborative, respectful community. And that really started with John Wells, the executive producer of many of the shows that I've worked on. He often used to say to us I expect you to behave in your very most creative and collaborative way every minute of every day, because we're going to be spending more time with each other than with our families during the time that we're shooting. And take your work seriously, contribute, be part of the community, make the community better by doing your part with all of yourself. 

11:21
And that became a real touchstone for me When I come from the 60s and that whole sense of community and being part of something. And also I was. It's hard to believe now, but I was an athlete as a kid And so that being part of a team and teamwork and finding your role. Not everybody can be the quarterback in an American football team. Not everybody can be the center on a rugby squad. But you find the role that you're right for and you bring all of yourself to it, and then you have a real chance at success. 

David John Clark
Host
12:04
Awesome, that's awesome. And you were saying coming from the 60s. We're now looking back in time at casting and movie making and the unfortunate events of the Weinstein area and everything like that. You seem to have been at the forefront in front of all that Hollywood hype, so to speak, developing actors and taking them on for what they were. And you're talking in your book a lot about the strength of women that you've known growing up right from your mother and the fellow casting directors you work with, which is just brilliant. Has that defined your career as a casting director and how you've come up with actors? Because you've been so modern, for one of the better words. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
12:54
Well, casting has traditionally been a I hate the phrase women's work, but the earliest casting directors most of them were producers and studio executives, secretaries, and they were mostly women And their job was to call the few big agents to check on the availability of a few stars. 

13:18
It's grown into a much bigger job than that, but it is still greatly populated by women and they bring their wonderful sensitivity and the absence of kind of you know, my way, or the highway approach that a lot of men who are quite competitive might have. You know, i think that I've been in touch with my so-called feminine side over the years my creativity and my interest in other people, my empathy, my collaboration, my sense of community, all of those things which I never was interested in, self-aggrandizing my power or my reputation, and as a result, i was able to accomplish all of those things without it being my intent at all. I don't think anybody goes into casting to get attention. I've had way more than my fair share And I think in some ways, being a straight man in a field that has been greatly populated by women and gay men, my uniqueness was an asset as well. 

David John Clark
Host
14:44
Awesome, Awesome And yeah, so that's bringing it back to that community that we're talking about. That all sort of builds on that, doesn't it? So when an actor walks into your room, us as actors, we just think they just want they are looking for a great actor. But it's more encompassing than that, isn't it? So you're looking for that professional actor that's someone that you personally would work with on set. So when do you start looking at all that and how, what are you drawing on? and when are you looking at just their acting and when are you looking at just their personality? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
15:15
Well, I'm looking at all of it. Obviously, their acting is very, very important and certainly the producers that I've had the pleasure of working with over the years value the importance of talent and dedication and preparation and training and all of that. But also in the days before the pandemic, when we were not doing self-tape auditions, we were doing live auditions, I learned everything about you watching you in the waiting room interacting with your people who are going to be competing against you. I learned a great deal about you as I introduced you to my colleagues who were the directors and producers and writers who were in the casting office with me and my associates. And I learned a great deal about you watching you listen to the director giving you an adjustment, and all of that is missing now in the self-tape world. But that's how I learned about you And, of course, because you developed long relationships with some actors, you learned about them because you have had many interactions with them. 

David John Clark
Host
16:31
Hmm, and it does change the environment a lot. Now the digital world and everything like that. I remember reading your book here You said that you the old school. You never had computers or faxes or anything, so you would have your powers of actors on top. So that certainly makes a big change for you In from going from that to a digital world. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
16:52
Yeah, absolutely, and you know, in that respect, sorting through submissions and Choosing who is going to get an opportunity to audition for a particular role technology and the digital world has really made enormous impact and positive impact on convenience and speed and All of those kinds of things. But for me, the, the attraction of being in the business of telling the stories of human beings, the ancient stories, they're still the same stories, right, kings and Queens, power gained and lost, love gained and lost, it's all. Those are the. You know the 22 stories that are possible. We're still telling them. But it seems to me that in that, in the digital world, we've lost so much human contact that we Are. I think it's arrogant of us to think we can tell Human stories without human contact. 

David John Clark
Host
17:57
Hmm, and do you see any change from actors? with the digital world, and that especially post COVID, have actors lost it like a their social Ability to communicate? Is there any changes that you're seeing over that time? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
18:14
Well, i haven't seen any in person for quite a while, but that's kind of a joke, but not really. You know, i don't think actors have changed or lost that Social ability. I think that's one of the things that you all share, is that you Are Interested in being watched. You know, i had an actress friend who I think gained a bunch of weight, said it's hard to be an actor if you don't want anybody to see you. And I think that's a very true observation and it's much easier to be an actor If you're comfortable with being seen by people. 

David John Clark
Host
19:00
Of course, of course, and do you think you were talking about? you haven't seen anyone in the room for a while now, and I know that this is self taping has become a bit of an issue in America at the moment after some articles that were promoted about Some casting directors allegedly Charging for you to submit your auditions, and it's caused a bit of for all. Are we always going to be self tapes now? Are we going to be back in the room or where do you see it going? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
19:29
Well, i'm hoping that major roles, important roles, series, regular roles, starring roles, that they will eventually, and I believe they are starting to have In-person callbacks. I don't think Smaller roles, co-star roles, will ever return to the live it just To demanding of the writers and directors and producers. Time and the studios and production companies have discovered that if Everything is on self tape, they don't need to have an office for me, so that's a big piece of the budget They didn't have to pay for. I'm sitting in my bedroom right now, no, and and I could and I can watch self tapes for hours on my back porch on a sunny day, if there ever is another one, you know. And and so again, the efficiency and that's impact on the economics of casting. The digital world is a great benefit, but on the personal level, i would hope that we'll be returning to rooms. You said post COVID. My brother-in-law got COVID from his son yesterday, so I don't think we're in post COVID yet still there, maybe there forever, who knows and. 

David John Clark
Host
20:59
And so diving a little bit into self tapes, then that gives the actors that some positives and negatives from not being in the room. So actors can do Practice over and over and over again and submit the best one. What's your recommendation for doing a self tape? because I still treat a self tape that I do like an audition, like I'm in the room, because you you very rarely get to do more than one or two takes. Yes, okay, so in a self tape you're not going to get any direction, but I'd like to be prepared, hit record and do it in one or two takes. Do you recommend actors do that Would? would you see that it's a 20th take if an actor does it that many times? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
21:38
No, that's one of the great disadvantages is that you don't know what number take it is, and it's important information if it's your 20th take. That's important information that I don't have. You know, as I said earlier, we want you to be brilliant, reliable, professional and quick Right, and if you're not quick, we should know that. Personally, i believe your approach is the right one. I don't think you get better after the third take. I think you start being in your head, doing my job, watching yourself, instead of just being in the moment in the scene. What if? in yourself, into the circumstances and emotional life of the character and if you've done your preparation other than having a 18-wheel truck roll by your window, there really shouldn't be a reason to do more than two or three takes, and My supposition, my belief, is that you won't get better after a certain point. In fact, i think you'll get tight and Outside of the character and inside of the actor, which is not where we want to be. 

David John Clark
Host
23:01
So on that, in regards you as the cast and dirt, you might not know it's a 20th take, but the the result they send in may be the reason they don't get the role, because you can see that they're not embracing That character, so to speak. So you, that's the negative side of doing it, i suppose I I Know my mentors are Greg apps, casting director out of Sydney. I've done a lot of training with him and he says embrace Your mistakes, you know, own them when you're on there, because that's what the natural of a character is, isn't it? We all have. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
23:35
I think sometimes, when you do something so-called wrong, that's where the gold is. When I was the kid and we were in acting class, we had an exercise where they told us to do things wrong. You know, and I remember when, when I think it's Brando when he first turned a chair around and sat on it like a Horus or perhaps a woman. That was that's not the way you sit on a chair, that's the wrong way to sit on a chair. But it was so wrong It was right mmm, that's interesting. 

David John Clark
Host
24:09
I think at the end of your book you talk about a lot of moments in your casting director a career, and one of Them was someone throwing the chair at the back of your wall and the chair smashing and leaving dent. So that's, that's not a mistake you want to make. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
24:23
No, exactly No, and that actually didn't even acknowledge that he had done that. He had left a mark. 

David John Clark
Host
24:32
Wow, it'd be interesting to know where that actor is today, whether they've progressed. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
24:37
He's done very well, he's done extremely well. 

David John Clark
Host
24:41
Okay, that's interesting. So You were talking before about yeah, we were talking about Getting the scene right in the first or second take. That leads into working with Aaron Sorkin for His. His writings are so brilliantly constructed and they're just so intense and fast. I've attempted to do the um. You know the newsroom speech. America's not the greatest country in the world With an Australian accent, mind you. I tried it, but it's extremely complex to master. Do you feel these type of roles require specific training, or is it just something an actor has or doesn't have? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
25:17
I think it's the latter. You know, i know some brilliantly talented people who can't walk and talk as fast as Aaron's material requires and it you know, it's really a special skill to be able to stay that much, that quickly and and and be believable as if you know what the hell you're talking about. 

David John Clark
Host
25:43
And that that's it. Is it? I mean, i I watched. I'm Unfortunate. I never watched newsroom when it was Out and about. I'm just finished first season now and I'm loving it, and it's just not just the speeches and the monologues But the interactions between four or five different characters at once. It's so fast-paced and and without knowing how they film it, i a lot of those scenes would be just, you know, that straight-up take and it's shows a lot of a Lot of ability on the actors, doesn't it? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
26:13
I love. 

26:13
Yes, it is a lot of pressure and a lot of ability, and especially if those were done in what they call one or is you know one One camera movement. 

26:24
We did that a lot in on ER as well, and if you were pushing a gurney with a patient and you were saying all this medical stuff that you didn't know what the hell it meant To you know, to the doctors giving you a report and it was two pages of the dialogue as you wheeled the patient Into the final room that he was gonna be in if you screwed up a medical term at the end of page two, it was very frustrating to directors And so, yes, it's very pressurized if you want to watch a Very fun show I don't know how available it is Aaron and Tommy shlami's first collaboration was sitcom called sports night, and it was about two guys who were the anchors in a sports broadcast program and They. It was very much like the relationship between Sam Seaborn and Brad Whitford's character, josh in the West Wing. Let's just set in a TV newsroom that's focused with sports. 

David John Clark
Host
27:30
Mmm, it's interesting. I certainly wanted to look that up because it's just brilliant to see especially how the characters change over that time in such an environment and and shows like Sports night in the newsroom and West Wing you talk about in your book how it made Politics in the case of West Wing sexy. So Is it a great how TV shows can bring something to the people. That's Someone might say in the outset Oh, this will never work. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
28:00
Well, and they certainly did say that about the West Wing. No shows about politics in America on Television had ever worked before, and they weren't really. The network wasn't terribly interested in it, as because of that sort of bias or that presupposition, and Only because of John Wells's clout, off of ER Did it get made. And then of course, the. The Result speaks for itself. 

David John Clark
Host
28:30
Awesome, awesome. Now I really want to talk about shameless, because that's the series I've seen from the beginning through towards the end, and particularly William H Macy Going back, greg apps being my mentor He's. He told me that I should look at to Macy's characters across his career for inspiration for how I should showcase myself, not not really in a branding or a typecast way, but because those type of characters fit fit me. Firstly, what was it like casting Macy in such an iconic role? Do you feel Macy took the brief and delivered the character as it was written, or did he just automatically fit the embodiment of Frank Gallagher straight off the back? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
29:11
Well, you know We had worked with with Bill on ER. He played Dr Morgan Stern for number of seasons and we had actually donea Pilot that he was a series regular on at the same time that we did the pilot of ER, and so we were very familiar with Bill, as anybody in the business ought to be, because he said such a remarkable, long and Distinguished career on stage, in film and on television. It's interesting that you say that that Greg suggested that you follow his career. You know, one of the things that It was crucial for Frank Gallagher was that, despite the fact that he's the worst father in the history of mankind, he is incredibly likeable and Lovable and you empathize with him and care about him. 

30:07
I think one of my very favorite moments in the whole 11 seasons happened in the pilot. Debbie, the youngest daughter, comes downstairs And finds her father passed out drunk on the floor of the living room And she slides a pillow under his head and pats him on the chest and moves on And and if his children could love him, we loved him too. Of course, bill didn't audition for that part. He was offered that part and John Wells and Others involved knew in advance that he had this great empathy and that he also had this Dark side that he would be willing to access. You know, he's just one of America's greatest actors and has been for decades and decades and decades, and He's a hell of a nice guy and not a pain in the ass, love it, love it, and so with character development that does Obviously Williams. 

David John Clark
Host
31:17
He's a great actor. How much of your background in training and and and life experience Doesn't act to bring to that? you know, when you see someone come in the room, what's what's selling it for them? Do you think it's them being themselves in the character that they're auditioning for applying? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
31:37
You know I I'm a very firm believer in that. You know, really, i think actors, you know, piano players, have the 88 keys and if they're in tune You can. And you have the hand, dexterity and the musical and rhythmic sense, you can play the piano. Your instrument as an actor is yourself, It's your experiences, it's your imagination, it's your emotional life, it's your intellectual life, it's all of the things that make you, it's your body, it's your voice and of course, it's your training, your technique, and so all of those things are very, very, very, very important to me. You know. I think that answered your question. 

David John Clark
Host
32:24
Yeah, definitely, definitely, because I've I've been told I That piece that you delivered, you were all actor. I want you to go back to this moment when you deliver this, where I saw David Clark, not David Clark the actor. I saw David Clark in the character. So I think that's a big thing for actors. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
32:44
Isn't that we're trying to take? you have to take yourself, your experiences in your imagination, your body and your voice and your training and you have to what if them? Into the circumstances of the character. You may not have the exact Emotional recall thing For the character, but the combination of your experiences in your imagination and your training you can get there. 

David John Clark
Host
33:12
Hmm but I know. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
33:14
I know what your mentor means about. I want to see an take where there's less actor and more Person I don't know And that person is a blend of you and the character hmm, mike, now my podcast is about me being a late bloomer actor. 

David John Clark
Host
33:35
In your experience as a casting director, what, what positives and all negatives do you see from actors who come Later to the game that don't have that formal acting training behind them is? is life experience enough to cut it? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
33:49
Well, certainly I knew more about who I was and who I wasn't when I was in my 40s or so. Is that where you are? 

David John Clark
Host
34:02
Just a bit to 50 in my. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
34:05
Well, you said you weren't going to out my age, so I apologize for outing yours. I think that so much of your ability as an actor is dependent on your ability to know yourself, and I think you certainly know, i certainly knew more about myself at 50 than I did at 21. And so I think I had more ability to draw. And I do think you know having training, even as a late bloomer, is a great idea and an unimportant backstop to and combines beautifully with having a greater sense of your own identity and qualities and what your strengths and weaknesses are. You know, all of that stuff which comes certainly comes with edge. 

David John Clark
Host
35:04
Yeah, it's difficult because you know late bloomers or people coming in, they've got careers that they have to keep doing. You know 40 hours a week and paying the mortgage and bills and stuff like that. So we sort of ride along, going from casting director workshop to self tape workshops and that. So it's about just doing the craft, isn't it? Keeping up to the muscle of the mind. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
35:28
Yeah, exactly Awesome. 

David John Clark
Host
35:30
Awesome. Now, John, we were talking about William H Masey before and character branding, so to speak. Do you think actors should have a brand or character type they should focus on, So for their show rules or anything or should they try and have a broader gamut of things that they're showcasing? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
35:50
Well, i hate the word brand and I hate the word type. So I would say I think it's important for every actor to know what their qualities are, what they seem like, do they you know? and I think the way you could find that out is how does the world treat you? If people are always confiding in you, you seem trustworthy. If the elevator door opens and the young mother with her child doesn't get on the car with you, you probably seem a little dangerous. If nobody ever flirts with you, your sexuality is probably behind the back door instead of in the front, and I think it's very important for you to know those things about yourself so you know what you can easily access and what you need to access through your imagination. And so I don't think you need to brand yourself, but I think you need to know yourself. 

David John Clark
Host
36:51
And then obviously that means if you are branded I know you haven't, you said you didn't like that word but if you're a type cast, then it's not a big negative, is it? Because work is work and acting is acting. So embrace what you're doing. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
37:05
Which is not a big negative, but I mean, i think it's more depending on what kind of a career you want to have. You know, early on in your career you're going to be playing things very close to yourself because the parts will be relatively small. You'll be playing a note rather than a chord. But as you get into your career further and further and you get bigger opportunities that have more dimension and more variety within it, you know, then you have to be able to play a chord instead of just a note, and both the words type and brand seem limiting to me in the sense that all I can do is snarl and pull a gun, and I hope that isn't true. 

David John Clark
Host
37:54
Fair enough. Fair enough. And, john, i think we're going to wrap this up now. It's been fantastic and such a pleasure to have you on the show here in Australia, and my listeners are all around the world. I know your book has been. I've seen a lot of people holding it up on Instagram saying, hey, i've read this fantastic new book, which is great to see there's so many people taking positives from it. And I just want to end our talk for this. For an actor, whether they be a late bloomer like myself, a newbie or a seasoned professional coming into your audition room for the first time or, as is the case now, submitting a self-tape to you, what three things would you consider pivotal for them to being right for the role to pinch the name of your book? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
38:42
Well. Preparation is so important and so evident. Taking your work seriously without taking yourself too seriously is a good thing for me, and I always say that. If I have written in my little notepad after your audition, simple and real, you've done damn well. And thanks for holding up the copy of the book. And I don't know if in Australia it's a different, but here in the States it's available on Amazon as well as on a Barnes and Noble site And it's available in an e-book for under 10 American dollars, a paperback, i think, for under 20, and a hardcover for slightly over 30. And I would be grateful if the Australian acting community glommed on to it. And I think and I very much appreciate the opportunity to talk to you today and to talk to your listeners and watchers I've been, to borrow my father's word, astonished, which is what he used to say when he was angry with us. 

40:00
I've been astonished at the response to the book. I really didn't know when I started out that I had. I knew I had a bunch of stories to tell, but I didn't know what the spine of it was about. And when I discovered with Trudy Roth, who wrote the book with me, that the spine of the book was about finding the role that you're right for, which is, in essence, finding yourself and your relationship to your community. That that's a universal message and it's to be having impact. 

David John Clark
Host
40:38
I loved it And when I first saw the book Right for the Roller, oh great, it's a book, it's gonna tell me how to be an actor, but it went complete, like you said. so more encompassing of people. There's so many roles of people that you met over your career fellow casting directors and producers and directors that have all become part of your family on that journey, isn't it? And that community that's 35 years later is still part of your life, i'm sure. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
41:07
Some of my closest friends are people I've been working with for decades and decades. 

David John Clark
Host
41:13
I love it. I love it And it is available. I got my copy from amazoncomau, so the Australian version of Amazon, so it is certainly easy to get. It was here within a couple of days after ordering. So if people want to look it up, it's Right for the Roll by John Frank Levy. And where can people find you? John? I know you're on Instagram. That's where I've been communicating with you. You said you're not picking on the tech. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
41:38
That's the best place to communicate with me and I look forward to hearing from you. And just as a side joke kind of, i always used to tease the Aussie boys when they would get to the States. I said when you can pick up an American girl in your American accent, you're ready to play an American on American television. 

David John Clark
Host
41:59
I love it. I love it. And, that being said, how hard is it to come to America if you don't have the American accent? Me, i'm a little bit tone deaf and I've been doing the training, but I just can't nail it to the point that I can sell myself with an accent. So can you come there and be an Australian? Obviously, you're gonna really restrict yourself for roles, but roles are changing, that diversity now. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
42:22
So can you put your hands up and say well, I mean, i think you know it would be much better to be your Australian self and see if that can be made to work than to be trying to do an American accent that isn't good enough. 

David John Clark
Host
42:37
Fair enough, fair enough. And just to finish with John, where are you at at the moment? You've got any current projects coming up? You're not. I'm gonna do the big R and retire, are you, Or are you ready to settle down? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
42:50
I'm sort of halfway between retired and not. I'm working on a small independent feature, trying to attach two star names so that they get their funding and get to get a go. I'm hoping that a particular television project is just around the corner, but if I am that R word, I'm okay And this book has given me the opportunity to do something new and different and very rewarding. so far Not economically. Jeff Bezos gets all the money. 

David John Clark
Host
43:32
So is there anything that you haven't been able to do being a busy casting director that if you did retire, that you'd say you know what, I'm gonna tick off the bucket list and do something. Is there anything you have never done that you would like to do now? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
43:47
Maybe I'd like to write a book. Oh, I just did that. 

David John Clark
Host
43:51
I love it. I love it Awesome. well, john, thank you very much. Is there anything you'd like to finish the interview off with and say to anyone? 

John Frank Levey
Guest
44:01
I just you know so have enjoyed over the years getting to know Australian actors, men and women, and love your dedication. When I traveled to Australia all those years ago, i happened to be near the opera house in Sydney and I was wearing my China Beach jacket because it was a cool evening. And you know, i think the Americans and the Australians both got embroiled in the war in Vietnam And I got quite a lot of attention and interaction with Aussies of my generation who knew that China Beach was about the war and had stories about the war. I think we have a lot in common and also some wonderful things that are different. 

David John Clark
Host
44:54
We do, we do. Thank you very much. And as I said to you earlier, I'm a way over to LA in May for my real job unfortunately not for acting, but for my real job. So I'm looking forward to doing a little bit of the touristy thing and stuff there. And my family and I are looking at doing a white Christmas in New York this year, So I'm certainly hoping to get over and see a bit of the American culture. So we're looking forward to that. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
45:18
Well, great. 

David John Clark
Host
45:20
Thank you very much. I love having you on, john. Thank you very much, and we'll hopefully get to meet you one day. 

John Frank Levey
Guest
45:26
That would be great. Thank you very much for the invitation. 

David John Clark
Host
45:29
Thank you.