Moore Mindfulness with Jason Moore

S03E05 is with Jason Moore. Jason is an actor, martial artist, musician, and counselor. We have a great discussion on how Jason got into the acting world, but how he also uses his skills as a qualified psychotherapist to support his fellow actors and provide them with tools to overcome the hurdles of rejection and and doubt that many actors face on their journey.

Takeaways

• Jason runs a counseling and psychotherapy business called Moore Mindful Services, where he specializes in providing support to entertainers and performers.
• He understands the unique challenges that actors face, such as performance anxiety, self-doubt, rejection, and depression.
• Jason's goal is to help actors manage these hurdles and reconnect with their purpose and passion. Overcoming rejection and doubt is crucial for actors, and it's important to change our negative programming and remind ourselves that rejection is often due to minor factors like appearance.
• Connecting with a deeper sense of purpose and reason for pursuing acting is essential, as it provides motivation and resilience during challenging times.
• Staying present in the moment during auditions and performances is crucial, and mindfulness techniques can help actors overcome imposter syndrome and performance anxiety.
• Creating a buffer zone between work and personal life, engaging in hobbies or interests outside of acting, and reaching out for support are important for maintaining mental well-being.
• Having mindfulness coaches or counselors on set can provide valuable support for actors during intense scenes and help them navigate challenging emotions.

You can find Jason online at Instagram and Facebook, as well as seek information on Moore Mindful Services.

Chapters

• 10:09 Multi-talents as an actor
• 15:07 Exploring the World of Action and Fight Choreography
• 25:24 Overcoming Rejection and Doubt
• 30:02 Mindfulness and Mindset in Acting
• 42:03 Staying Present and Overcoming Performance Anxiety

Transcript

David John Clark (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Late Bloomer Actor. Before I go into the introduction of this month's guests, I'd like to ask you all a favour and consider supporting the show if you already haven't done so. You can do this by sharing on your social media platforms. It's as simple as it is. That's all I'm asking for you today. Letting all your fellow actors and non -actors know about the show and what they can get from it. This would be a great way to get the show found by those not so fortunate to have found it yet.

I would truly appreciate this and it'll be great for the show. So thank you very much in advance. So on with this month's guest. Today we have Adelaide based actor, martial artist, musician and counselor, Jason Moore. He shares his journey into acting, including his experiences in web series and independent films.

Jason also discusses his passion for action and fight choreography. In addition to his acting career, Jason runs a counseling and psychotherapy business called Moore Mindful Services,

where he specializes in providing support to entertainers and performers. He understands the unique challenges that actors face, such as performance anxiety, self doubt, rejection, and depression. Jason's goal is to help actors manage these hurdles and to reconnect with purpose and passion. In this conversation, he discusses the importance of mindfulness and mindset for actors.

He emphasizes the need to overcome rejection and doubt by changing our negative programming and reminding ourselves that rejection is often due to minor factors. And it's usually not reflective of our abilities in any way, even though we think it does. We really dive into the positive benefits of learning and using mindfulness in our daily lives, whether we're actors or not, and how these methods can improve your wellbeing and drive you forward in your chosen ambitions.

It's a great chat and certainly full of valuable insights, no matter what your background or your future aspirations. So without any further ado, thank you for joining us and here we go.

David John Clark (02:02)
Welcome everyone. We have another wonderful episode of the Late Bloomer Actor here. 2024 is certainly moving on and we have in the room today Jason Moore. How are you Jason?

JASON MOORE (02:12)
I'm very good, thank you, yourself.

David John Clark (02:14)
Awesome. It's great to have you on. I know we've talked about it for a little while and you were busy last year with some filming, which we'll talk about. So, but it's great to have you here now. Now I have a quick question. You go by two names. So Jason Moore on IMDB and Jason Malcolm Moore on Facebook. Is that your actor's name? Do you differentiate in some way?

JASON MOORE (02:33)
Yes. So.

Yeah, so funny story about the Malcolm, my middle name comes from my Papa. His name was Malcolm. When I was a kid, I used to like correct people all the time. They would say, Jason Moore, and I would always as a kid like, no, it's Jason Malcolm Moore, because I was super certain that no, I had to have my middle name in that as well. The reason that my social media names are slightly different is originally for ethical reasons, being a counselor working in mental health, I was like, ah,

David John Clark (03:04)
Okay.

JASON MOORE (03:05)
That way people can't track me down on Facebook, but then soon realized as an actor, it's kind of going to happen anyway. So, it doesn't really like make me hidden or anything. So that's, I just haven't updated it. So yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's not a problem at all.

David John Clark (03:16)
Fair enough, fair enough. And we've just exposed it here on the podcast now anyway. I wasn't sure because you had it hyphenated. So I wasn't sure whether it was a married name with no hyphenate name. So that's cool. That's nice to know. So well, Jason, just for all our guests here in Adelaide, a lot of people know you. But my guests range from all over Australia and across the world now. It's slowly getting.

JASON MOORE (03:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

David John Clark (03:44)
Very expansive. A lot more US listeners coming on, which I love. Can you just tell our audience who Jason Moore is, and where you come from, and how you got into acting? And then we'll go on to your business as well.

JASON MOORE (03:48)
Awesome.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, very, I'm a very eclectic person, as you'll soon find out if you don't know who I am already. I'm an actor. I am a martial artist with an interest in a variety of martial art styles. I am currently doing, working towards becoming a registered stunt man eventually. That is one of my goals. I have written and produced my own web series with a few really good mates. I've worked behind the camera. I've worked in front of the camera. I...

also have been a musician. So I've played in rock bands and I've also played the bagpipes for over 15 years now as well. And that's also included. Yeah. Yeah. So it's still, it's still a performance side of things actually. And that's probably, it was that that started my performance background. And then that moved for some reason into also doing stage magic. And from there, I kind of got into acting, but acting was something that even as a young kid, I was always

David John Clark (04:36)
I love that. I was going to talk about that.

JASON MOORE (04:57)
wanting to do. My Mum my Dad told me stories of coming out my bedroom with a bin on my head and pegs covering my face or my body and stuff. And just me coming out with these weird costumes. And I was like 21 at the time, so it was quite weird. No, I was a young lad. But yeah, back then I was always the center of attention. I was always coming up with these weird stories, imagination. It was running wild back then.

David John Clark (05:13)
Hahaha!

JASON MOORE (05:27)
So obviously, good place to put me into was drama school. So Mum and Dad put me into one of the drama academies here in Adelaide, did that for a couple of years, played as a pirate, played various other little weird roles as a kid, good fun. It actually died off a little bit after a while because just school and you start to kind of go, ah, like, oh, you're in Adelaide, you're not in Hollywood. So like, where are you gonna,

kind of go with this. So it was something I always wanted to do. And like, Mum and Dad did sign me up to like an agency back when I was a young kid, but it was one of those agencies that you see in the shopping centers and things like that. So, yeah, so it didn't really get too much out of, yeah, very much. So yeah, especially back then there was a lot of those around. So yeah, like did that and just focused on school for a little while and kind of didn't really do too much performance or anything for quite a while. And to be honest, I actually lost a lot of that confidence now thinking back to it.

David John Clark (06:05)
Okay. Yeah. Take your money and run.

JASON MOORE (06:24)
During that period. And then yeah, it was actually this all ties to acting eventually. Yeah, as it so in high school, we started primary school, we were learning guitar. So first time learning an instrument, had a really good music teacher at the start. He disappeared after a few months and got replaced with a new music teacher. And that music teacher within a few lessons actually told me, give up, you never

David John Clark (06:30)
I love it.

JASON MOORE (06:51)
give up, you're never going to be a musician. And obviously as a young kid in primary school, pretty harsh feedback, right? So put the guitar under my bed. Yeah.

David John Clark (06:59)
Don't you just love teachers like that? We've all heard stories about that. What kind of teacher, especially in creation, stifles someone like that? I mean, jeez.

JASON MOORE (07:07)
Hmm. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I remember as a kid going home and like putting the guitar under the bed and just saying to my Mum, I'm not doing any of that anymore. So yeah, that was kind of the end of my music career back then and the end of my performance career. It was, yeah, then high school kind of came around and I, again, as well as acting, bagpipes are always something that was really interesting to me as well. I'm scottish it, oh, Mum's from Scotland. So it was something that's always been in the blood, I guess.

David John Clark (07:31)
Okay.

JASON MOORE (07:33)
We had a garage sale, somebody bought a kid set of bagpipes that we had from Scotland and said, does anyone play? And me being about 12 at the time, I was like, I've always wanted to. And she said, I'll come down to the pipe band and learn. We've got a free tuition program. So I went there, learned that figured out pretty quick that, oh, I can learn an instrument and I can do this. Pulled out the guitar actually, and started teaching myself a few chords. And so I learned guitar, bagpipes, tin whistle, a bit of mandolin as well. And yeah.

Eventually was performing at weddings, funeral services, Anzac days, ceremonies, various other events quite quickly. And when I actually really liked this, I liked performing. I liked being able to present my art form and that kind of thing. And it was about the same time as I started to get more out there doing that kind of thing that I saw a post on Facebook on one of my friends showed it that we're looking for extras for some,

David John Clark (08:09)
Nice.

JASON MOORE (08:30)
a web series that was being filmed at the time, which was actually Warpath Chronicles, which I know you were on as well, David. And I went, oh, I didn't know things like that happened in Adelaide. That's kind of cool. I had no experience needed. Cool. I've always loved like the medieval side of things. And I had like weird collections of swords and costumes and fantasy stuff. So I got in touch with Aron who was the one, the director and writer of that. And yes, absolutely. And I've worked a lot.

David John Clark (08:35)
Woohoo! Yeah.

who's been on the show as well. So.

JASON MOORE (08:58)
with one of our few projects since then with him and really good friend of mine. And yeah, from there, I actually got on board with that near the end of that project and was on, even though it was near the end of the project, I was on about five or six different shoot dates during that period and made a lot of connections. And it was kind of from those connections that things just kind of snowballed and yeah, expanded from there.

David John Clark (09:23)
It has. And I feel your journey has been like that too because I honestly can't remember when we first crossed paths. It would have had to have been Warpath surely somewhere around that time. We've known each other for a while now and may have started online. It's really hard to remember these things but yeah. But your journey has been, to me it's always felt like a snowball effect that you've done.

JASON MOORE (09:29)
Mmm

The joy of social media at least, yeah.

Hmm.

David John Clark (09:48)
So much and then, but so much successfully as well with your stunt work and everything that you've been on there. You've also managed to pull off a couple of professional credits as well, haven't you? Both Firebite, The Stranger, which I auditioned for, but wasn't successful, but it was a lead role I auditioned for. So I knew I didn't really have much of a chance there. And the most recent one being the recent hit sensation, Talk To Me.

JASON MOORE (10:16)
Hmm. Yes, yeah.

David John Clark (10:17)
You were on that. So it's really done you well.

JASON MOORE (10:21)
Yeah. And like that would be one of those things. It's like, I went in starting, just doing extra work, obviously. And I still do a bit of that as well, but it's from those opportunities that things expand as well. So that's something that I always do tell people is don't be afraid, especially if you're just starting out or don't know where to go. Just start going to some of these auditions, start putting your hand up for some of this work and you start to make those connections.

David John Clark (10:34)
Yes.

JASON MOORE (10:50)
And with The Stranger for example, that was the first proper credit that I've actually got. And that was, I just signed up with a new agent. They pretty quickly got me this gig originally as just an extra. They, they need somebody to play like a social worker in the background of a scene. It's for this crime film. There's no talk. It's just an extra role, but you'll be kind of in the background. And I was like, oh yeah, cool.

David John Clark (11:16)
Works for me. Yeah.

JASON MOORE (11:17)
Yeah, I was like, that's fine. Awesome. Yeah, it's paid gig and get me on a cool set with some cool actors as well. And rocked up obviously, like many of those shoots that was about 100, 150 other extras as well. Various police search teams and stuff like that. And I rocked up to my location. It was time to shoot and they came up and went, oh, actually now we're going to use this person as a counselor. So just Jason come down.

David John Clark (11:22)
Mmm.

soon.

JASON MOORE (11:46)
work and start to get kind of tired. You're getting taken back to the tent. Not going to get any really screen time. All good. It happens. But no, that actually took me to another trestle table, sat me down, still on set and said, you're now a detective here, put this lanyard on. Someone's going to come down and have a chat to you when we say action. Just ablib, answer his questions and just you'll walk on. Okay, cool. Yeah. At that stage, still thought I was just background.

David John Clark (11:56)
It does.

JASON MOORE (12:15)
Didn't think it was anything major. Just thought, cool, I got to actually be a police officer now. Cool. Yay. Detective Jason. And it wasn't until afterwards, it wasn't actually quite a while afterwards that my agent contacted me and said, hey, like, did you like get asked to say stuff on camera? I'm like, oh, maybe. I wasn't really like, I was in the scene. I wasn't really like looking over my shoulder to see what was going on around me, but I spoke to someone.

David John Clark (12:37)
I love it.

JASON MOORE (12:44)
And she's like, yeah, well, you spoke to like one of the lead actors and she sent me like the little screenshot of the scene that they were going to use. And she was like, this is what it sounds like you say. And it was like something about the search party, the lead actor came up and asked me about how the search was going. And I responded to him. It was just one line, but it's still got included. So she's like, Oh, you've actually officially got a bit part. And I was like, Oh, cool. So that was really neat. And not just a really good example of that. You never know where this stuff's going to take you.

David John Clark (13:12)
Exactly. I had a lot of people say that, oh, I've done too much study or I'm too good to do extra work down. Hey, if you're the Tom Cruise's or the Nicole Kidman's of the world, maybe. But, yeah, certainly I think that, especially if you're trying to make a living and every dollar counts, of course, that then that extra work is not only is that networking and that experience on set, it's those moments that you can get upgraded like that. Or the director just remembers you and then all of a sudden you're getting a phone call,

JASON MOORE (13:21)
100 % yeah.

Hmm.

David John Clark (13:40)
a year later or something. So, hey, you were an extra on my set last year. I want you to come in and audition and then bang, doors open.

JASON MOORE (13:47)
For sure. Yeah.

David John Clark (13:48)
And then you taking the whole thing in your process now through producing your own work and you've just finished season one of Blood City, which has a another wonderful actor in it by the name of David John Clark, I play Joel alongside some great scenes with you. So what encouraged you to go in and start making your own work because of the complexities of it and the amount of work and we all know how hard it is to get funding, et cetera. So.

JASON MOORE (14:11)
Mmm. Mmm.

David John Clark (14:18)
Where are you taking Blood City and what's your plans with that and how did it all evolve?

JASON MOORE (14:22)
Yeah. Yeah. So just prior to starting Blood City, I was invited to go to Sydney and work as a second AD on a feature film called Suka. So went there, learned that I actually really enjoyed the production side of things and learned obviously a lot. It was an intensive I was there for a few weeks and learned so much during that time. Came back to Adelaide when, Oh, I actually really enjoyed producing that helping be a part of the production side of things for that

movie, I wonder what's stopping me from actually doing this and trying my own thing. So I had a few ideas run through my head. I always wanted to obviously be an action star one day or, and rather than waiting for that ideal role to be served to me on a platter. I've got mates. We all kind of are into that kind of same thing. Let's do it together. So we kind of took that step, started writing up a few episodes, sent it to Aron, sent it to another good mate, Patty, and said,

Hey, what do we think about this? Could we do anything with this? And Patty and I had done like an action little short fight scene, uh, about a year or so before that. And so we kind of took that as a inspiration for writing a whole series around those two characters who were in this little fight scene. And yeah, that kind of snowballed and we, we went from there and started, I wrote, uh, between the three of us, we kind of bumped ideas around and we came up with

David John Clark (15:40)
Nice.

JASON MOORE (15:50)
what ended up being, I believe it's about seven episodes. And yeah, we filmed that over a very short period. It was like three months and like not consecutive. It was like weekends and days off here and there and the odd night. So we were quite proud actually of like, we've got some really good people involved, great locations, and it was just a really cool learning experience as well, because obviously being

David John Clark (16:12)
Yes.

JASON MOORE (16:16)
behind the camera in that big feature film. I was learning a lot, but there was obviously all these other moving parts. This was really intense because now doing it for myself with a smaller group of people, we had to work within our means as well, but we also got to have that creative freedom, which was really cool too.

David John Clark (16:35)
Now, answer me this or riddle me this as they say, what came first, the story or the stunts or the fight scenes? It's a very intense, intensive fight scene show, but that's obviously because yourself and all your mates, Patty included, are all into the stunt and the fight because you've all had those little videos on YouTube. So I was trying to work out which one came first.

JASON MOORE (16:43)
So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So always loved action films. Like that's always been a passion of mine ever since I was a little kid. Dad and I would stay up late most nights watching films and like all the classic old school great stuff. And that was always something that I just was drawn to. So when it got into acting, Warpath just happened to be the first kind of set that I was on that happened to kind of still fall into that category of action. And I just went, Oh, I actually really like this. How can I do more of this?

So started studying and doing a lot more research into fight choreography. And from that it became also, oh, you can also be a stunt man. What's that? What's a stunt performer do? Okay, cool. Did a bit of research into that. Who do I need to talk to about that? And, and so it started to also train in that while I was also training as an actor and doing short courses and various other training workshops and stuff like that. And eventually kind of went, yeah, like this.

does feel really cool. Maybe one day it could be the next Tom Cruise doing your own stunts on a film. We know that's obviously a big ask, but it was a passion of mine and something I was really interested in. So yeah.

David John Clark (18:07)
Hey, go start somewhere. Some of your fight scenes, both I've seen some of the ones from Blood City that you've released, just scenes and your scenes that you do, they're really, really well worked. And Aron's filming of them is also doubles up on the professionalism of them, doesn't it?

JASON MOORE (18:20)
Hmm.

For sure. It's definitely, it's an art form. And that's, that's also kind of what, that's why that kind of caught my eye as well was obviously there's any type of film genre. There is finesse and details that go into it, but something about action, being able to tell a story in those types of sequences with your body, with the actions that are being done, with the conflict and the emotions that come up during those fights, those...

interactions between characters. There's something different about that. And it's just another layer. And then how do you film that to be convincing? I actually went from going, Oh, I'm really, I want to become like a stunt man to actually, I really like more the action side and like the fight choreography and that side of things more. So I still would love to be a registered stunt performer one day and, and working my way up to that gradually. It's a long process here in Adelaide, but it's,

David John Clark (19:17)
Fair enough.

JASON MOORE (19:18)
But I've been really enjoying doing my own research and still training with these people and focusing more on the fight choreography side of things too. And learn by doing, always good to get out there with fellow people that are practicing it and figure out how do you do this stuff? How do you film this stuff to be convincing? And how do you tell a story with the action that you're in, you're doing in that choreography as well? So it was just all those elements that I really liked and all those people that I was working with.

kind of had a similar interest as well so it worked out quite well.

David John Clark (19:52)
Now I wanna step away from acting for a little while and maybe we'll come back and finish up with a summary of it. But you're what we call our, the moneymaker, the one that pays the bills. You run a business called Moore Mindful Services, which I just love the play on words there using your name. So where you're a counselor, let me pronounce this right, a psychotherapist.

JASON MOORE (20:12)
Absolutely.

David John Clark (20:18)
and therapeutic coach. I'm terrible at those bigger words. There we go. A great, great actor I am. Can you just explain to us what your job is there? Obviously you've done some big studies for that and what services you provide.

JASON MOORE (20:20)
Yes. No, you're all good. No, you're fine.

Hmm. Yeah, a hundred percent. So I'm a master's qualified counselor and psychotherapist and I've been in private practice working in the mental health field for about six years now. Actually, it doesn't feel like that long, but it has actually been that long now. And I've got an office based in Mawson Lakes and I've actually started working mainly in the areas of ADHD and autism in adult or young adult clients. And it's something that ties a lot,

like mental health and our mindset around these types of things is super important and ties a lot into the performance arts, as you can imagine, because we need like our mind is our biggest tool in anything creative. So if it's struggling, our performance isn't going to be the best. So it's an area that might sound or look on the surface like how does that relate to your performance background? But actually when you look deeper, it's pretty intense and does relate quite well to it. So yeah, I work

with a variety of different clients and really enjoy my job to be honest. And you never know what you're going to get either with a lot of these clients that you get to work with. And you learn a lot about yourself throughout that process too, which is kind of cool. But yeah, being able to do something where you get to help people and make a bit of a difference makes going to work quite easy.

David John Clark (21:43)
OK.

I love it. I want to focus on the, on your business side with Actors. Now, if you don't mind, I'm just going to read something straight from your website, your website in relation to the services that you provide in for specifically for Actors. And so you write here, I pride myself on being able to offer tailored support that gets results for entertainers and performers. Being a professional performer myself, I understand the hurdles that are associated with the arts. Those working in the arts often struggle with performance anxiety, self -doubt, goal setting,

JASON MOORE (21:56)
Hmm go for it

David John Clark (22:19)
motivation, rejection, depression, and many other hurdles more than most people may realize. My specialized performer specific coaching allows artists to get support from someone who not only has the knowledge to coach them along their path, but also understands this path and its hurdles too. You go on to offer support to better manage that rejection and to reconnect with purpose and passion for actors. There's so many things here.

JASON MOORE (22:35)
Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

David John Clark (22:46)
I could have broken that paragraph down bit by bit. So what's your passion for mental health training and wellbeing for performers and what can we do to make things better as actors when we're in those moments? I call them the troughs of our acting when we feel, yeah.

JASON MOORE (22:49)
Mm.

Hmm. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I always say like, what other industry do you deal with as much rejection than we do in the performing arts? We do countless auditions. We get put forward for so many different roles. And the reality is, I don't know the exact stats, but most of the time it's rejection that you met with until you get that, that, that role. So how do you keep?

David John Clark (23:31)
I just saw a YouTube video of an actress, I wish I could remember her name. But she said it's 68 auditions before you get one job. And she said, oh, she said she just got one after 42 and she's a big time act. So it was, oh my God. So 68 job interviews where they're telling you, you're no good. Well, they're not, but that's how you might feel. That's...

JASON MOORE (23:32)
Yeah.

There you go. Yeah.

Mm. For sure.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that that's exactly the point is we deal with that rejection. And because as humans, we are naturally negatively bias most of the time in how we're taught to think and how we're programmed to think that rejection after a while you do start to go, Oh, am I not good at what I do? Am I, am I in the wrong field? Should I try something else? Should I just stop going for additions or should I just like,

go back to uni or do something else or get a retail job. Cause we do, we doubt ourselves because that's our natural programming is to be that negatively skewed, but we need to change that because it's as we know, when you actually look at the nitty gritty, most of the time when it comes to an audition, the reason you might not get that role is just because you might just be a little bit too tall or you might just not have that right facial expression or that

David John Clark (24:27)
Mmm.

JASON MOORE (24:47)
right colour hair or the right body type or type of voice. There's a lot of things. Yeah. Well, I colour light. You can talk. Yeah. You can talk to any agent and they'll probably tell you the same thing that yeah, there's, there's people that sometimes are not as good as actors as others, which we're all got strengths and weaknesses and areas to work on, but that's not always the case of why you don't get a role.

David John Clark (24:51)
Mmm, eye colour. Yeah, big thing. It's usually so big.

Definitely.

JASON MOORE (25:12)
Most of the time it comes down to something a lot more minor such as like you should say eye colour or hair colour or height even. I've been told a few times that I because I'm quite a tall person that I've came very close to getting a role but just a little bit too tall so that's just yeah just the reality unfortunately. But reminding ourselves of that as a reality and not letting that put you down as a performer or belittle your strengths and

David John Clark (25:16)
Yes.

I've had the same problem.

JASON MOORE (25:42)
your art form is really important. So that's where I come from, from that side of things of that persistence, that connection of why you're doing this as well. Are you doing this just to become famous and to make millions of dollars? If that's the case, you need something deeper than that because that's not going to be enough to drive you. Why do you want to do what you do? And for me, it's, I just, I love performing. I love being able to have an imprint

on somebody that's seen me perform, whether it is bagpipes, whether it's me doing a magic show, whether it's me in front of the camera, I want to have some type of input on the person, my audience. So at the end of the day, by me even being able to do an audition, I've had that opportunity, but also I get to practice in other areas of my life too. So it's not about getting that big dream role, although yeah, we can all, I really want that. I'd be lying if I said I didn't, but it's about so much more than that.

David John Clark (26:26)
Yes.

JASON MOORE (26:38)
If we can connect with a deeper sense of purpose and reason, that'll keep us going during those hard times. That'll keep us going when we don't get that 30th, 40th audition. And it means when we get to that 50th audition and we get that one, we feel really good about it. And it's not about how many you've had to go through to get that one. So yeah, so that's on that level. And then the other side of the coin is what do you do once you're in front of the camera? How do you deal with that

David John Clark (27:00)
Yes.

JASON MOORE (27:06)
imposter syndrome or that performance anxiety when they say action. And then there's a whole new element then of mental health and resilience. And we need to talk about that. So yeah, so there's those two sides of the coin that I tend to focus on. And the goal setting kind of ties into like, well, where are you going to find these opportunities as well? Because like we've already discussed, especially here in Adelaide, it's good to, we're not, there's,

David John Clark (27:23)
Nice.

JASON MOORE (27:35)
only so many opportunities that are going to naturally just appear in front of you. Sometimes you've got to be a bit creative and go out there and start making your own opportunities as well in order to hone your craft. So that's where the goal setting element comes in as well.

David John Clark (27:40)
Yes.

Okay. I'd like to talk to some of the, for want of a better word, that the negatives that can come for performers and how you can approach it. But can you ask me this question first? I've just interviewed Rachel Baker on my last episode, preceding yours, who runs the Don't Be So Dramatic podcast out of Sydney. And she's just started doing online mindset coaching for actors. Now you use the word mindfulness a lot for yours. Do you know?

JASON MOORE (27:55)
Mm.

Mmm.

David John Clark (28:18)
I don't think there's a great difference, but what's, what do you see the difference between mindfulness and mindset? If there, if any.

JASON MOORE (28:24)
Hmm. So I think that's a really good question. So mindfulness is defined as being present in the moment. Right. So as you can imagine, pretty important when you're in a, when somebody says action in order to stay in your scene, stay in your character, not get distracted by what's going on behind the camera or all the people running around. Yeah. Well, the aeroplanes flying over or the person opening and closing doors in the room behind you or something like that. So mind.

David John Clark (28:51)
Or the fight that you had with your partner the night before, that sort of stuff, yeah.

JASON MOORE (28:52)
exactly. Yeah. Or, yeah. Or those kinds of things, because that's going to impact the character that you perform on screen. So in the performance side of things, that's why being completely present in the scene is super important. Especially if you're doing something like action as well. If you start to get a bit distracted, you might get a bit too close and actually you might land one of those punches or kicks. And we don't want to do that. We've all got to look after our pretty faces. So the mindfulness element is super important. And

David John Clark (29:12)
Get hurt.

Definitely.

JASON MOORE (29:22)
mindfulness when it comes to things such as anxiety or stress or depression or worry is also super crucial in order to overcome that. And that's where the mindset comes in. So this is where I guess mindfulness and mindset kind of tie together in this way, because by being more mindful, we can shift our mindset to more positive things that we can actually make a difference with. So when we look at the two most common struggles that we

might face day to day or regularly in our lives, whether we're a performer or not, you've got the two kinds of mindsets of anxiety and depression. Everyone's pretty familiar with those two definitions. I describe it as anxiety is usually your worry of the what if. So what if somebody laughs at me? What if I forget my lines? What if I don't get this job? What if I fail? It's the what ifs and that creates anxiety. And we ruminate on that and get worried and paranoid.

And then you've got depression, which is the other side of the scope. It's past focus. So it's, oh, I remember I stuffed this line up last time when I was reading it, or I remember I forgot this line and, or I remember that that time on this other set that I didn't, I tripped. And you start to ruminate on past problems and we get caught up in the negatives of what happened in the past. So both those mindsets, anxiety is more future focused, depression, more past focused are pulling you away from the present moment.

So that's where mindfulness and being present is so crucial. And so that's where that kind of all ties in together with the mindset side of things too.

David John Clark (30:58)
So it's a bit like for want of a good analogy, the old days of the guys building the buildings in Sydney, you know, you've got that photo of them all sitting on the edge of the pylon, 50 floors up with no harnesses or anything on. So they're not at risk, but they're all fine at the moment. But now we have harnesses and everything. So we have these techniques that should we fall,

JASON MOORE (31:09)
Hmm.

Hmm.

David John Clark (31:25)
it, we're going to be saved or and there's that prevention of you going down the wrong path, so to speak, because, you know, I'm 50 years of age and I mean, like everyone, I suffer anxiety. I'm anxious when I walk into a room. I was anxious when I was first recruited into my government job. I was anxious when I first did my first acting job, but I've just gone, well, I've just got to do it. But we see a lot more people say, I suffer from anxiety than we did in our day. Now,

JASON MOORE (31:26)
Mmm.

Hmm.

David John Clark (31:53)
Is it just that we're identifying it more or is it because the world is so different now that we need more people, need tools to overcome that anxiety where we sort of think we just plowed through it?

JASON MOORE (32:05)
Hmm. Yeah. I would say yes to both, to be honest. You can look at this from many different levels and all kind of have their own impact for sure. We can look at the environmental and social factors that life is a lot more busy and a lot more hectic than it used to be. We have always access to our work emails, to phone calls, to Facebook messages, social media messages, pop -ups, text messages, phone calls, all these other distractions.

And usually that's always with us. We don't like a phone is with us in our pocket for most people right up until we go to bed. Sometimes it even sits there right next to you while you're in bed. There's no escape. You've got that element. And then obviously financial burdens, family, relationship problems, friendship dynamics, family problems, all these other personal stuff as well that goes on behind the scenes too, or work problems as well. All those elements.

It's a very busy and hectic life. We've all got multiple masks and multiple things that we balance. So with that being said, like, of course you're going to be a bit more anxious because you've got a lot of stuff going on in your life. And then the awareness side of things, I would also say is another reason why we're seeing more of it. Yes, you've got more of it happening because of environmental factors and social factors. But the good thing is that that stuff, the social media side of things

can actually be a tool if used correctly because it spreads awareness as well. Because there is more awareness coming out, there is more people kind of going that, hey, I suffer from anxiety or hey, yeah, I struggle with depression. It starts to become a bit more normal to talk about. I get a lot of, especially like male clients coming in and talking about emotions now, which is fantastic because not that long ago, that wasn't a common thing. You wouldn't really get, to be honest, you wouldn't really get that many male therapists for a start.

But you definitely wouldn't get that many male clients coming forward either. So as that's happening, that's a perfect example of the shift in being open about this stuff is kind of shining more of a light on it and making more people go, ah, it's okay to talk about that stuff. Ah, I'm not the only one that struggles there. And that's not to take away from your own experiences, but to realize that you're not alone in your suffering, no matter how dark the situation that you might be going through.

Kind of inspires hoping as well.

David John Clark (34:26)
Let's talk a little bit about bringing it back to acting a bit. What's your suggestion for actors

who might find themselves struggling to get to let go of a character that they've played. Now we all know of the stories of actors who've got right down into the method of a dark character. And unfortunately we've lost actors to this darkness, arguably it was because of the character. So what mindfulness techniques can they be using during the filming or in the lead up to making that character work?

JASON MOORE (34:36)
Mmm.

David John Clark (35:00)
And do you think they need to do something at the end of every day to let go of that character?

JASON MOORE (35:07)
Really good question because if you look at this from, I'll bring it back to acting in a sec, but if you look at it from a broader perspective, if you have a particularly stressful job, right? You, maybe you work in law enforcement or military or you're a nurse or you're a doctor or even a therapist at times too. You might face a lot of really difficult times at work. And I know that obviously any industry there's...

You can have difficult hard days as well. So it doesn't matter what industry you're in, but if you go home straight after a day like that, and you take all that with you, walk into your family or your friends and take that same stuff, that same energy into that place, it's going to be really hard to let go or like become you again. So the same is true for acting and for roles in my, in my view.

David John Clark (35:36)
Of course.

JASON MOORE (36:00)
Sometimes we get asked to play characters that we feel go against our values or dark and completely the opposite. Something that I would never do in my darkest imaginations. How do we leave that on set or how do we leave that in the space in the rehearsal room? Both have the same kind of results, whether it's relating to your work or relating to acting, I feel. It's finding a buffer zone firstly. So rather than just going from set

to home or rather than going from the rehearsal room to straight to work or something like that. Creating a buffer between those two things, which might be something that is uplifting or that for you is something that changes your mindset to something positive. So one of the common ones is a nice nature walk or play with your dog or something along those lines or a sport. A lot of people like cycling, swimming, running, those types of things as well.

Creating a buffer between the stressful, hard, emotional side of things, whatever that is, and going back to reality or your normal life. Super, super important. Obviously that can depend on who you are as a person and what kind of things might work for you, but that's a massive element of it. Bringing it back to acting specifically relating to roles, I was told by a

David John Clark (37:17)
Of course.

JASON MOORE (37:24)
a few acting coaches and stuff that I've spoke to in the past about no matter how dark a character might sound, finding reason or finding an element in that character that you resonate with as a person. And if we can actually do that, it helps us not only connect better with that character, but also helps us understand why that character might have done whatever they might have done as well. And also helps us

be able to rationalize why we're acting as that character in that film as well, without us feeling that it's impacting us in all those other negative elements. It doesn't matter what the character is example, random example, you might be playing a murderer, okay? Or a serial killer. Obviously those roles come up a fair bit, but we don't want to obviously make ourselves feel like we are that person in real life, but you might connect with a value such as,

David John Clark (38:20)
For sure.

JASON MOORE (38:22)
that character, I can see that character is very driven or that character is very passionate about their beliefs. That's a value I can resonate with. Okay. So I'm going to focus on that rather than he's killing these innocent people, for example. So yeah.

David John Clark (38:37)
I've heard that a lot. Yeah, they say because in their mind, they're not doing anything wrong, unless they're truly psychopathic. Psychopathic. Yeah, that word. They have goals and wants and needs. And if you sit down with them, they're not going, I'm a murderer. They believe in something themselves. So that's the same as any other character. I'm not a murderer, but I certainly can

JASON MOORE (38:41)
Hmm. Yeah.

Of course, psychopaths, yeah. You're all good.

Yeah.

Sure.

David John Clark (39:06)
understand those concepts.

JASON MOORE (39:07)
Yeah. So I find for me personally, that's what helps me connect with those types of characters and stops me from getting overwhelmed with maybe what they've been asked to do in the scene or whatever. And as silly as it might sound as well, the mindfulness element of things comes back into play here as well, because reminding ourselves of being present in that moment in the scene and kind of going, well, what actually is happening here as well is performance.

You still obviously want to make it look real for the scene and all that kind of thing, but being mindful and present in that moment going, what's around me? Cameras, microphones, slate, an editing team, first aid, other actors. This is all, for lack of a better term, pretend. I'm pretending to play this. I promise it won't negatively, shouldn't negatively impact your performance.

But if you are starting to feel overwhelmed or too consumed, that's where the mindfulness element comes back into play of bringing yourself back to that kind of where are you right now? You're in there, cool. Now, what have you been asked to do? You've been asked to play this particular role, play that role, perform that role. Cool. And then you might come back to the idea of the values that we were talking about before to bring you connected back to the character so you can perform in that realistic way. Those types of elements.

You touched on this as well about what should we do after those roles too. So like we said before, the buffer zone, but checking in with each other after once they say cut, Hey, are you okay? Like we all good. Like I've just yelled at you or screamed at you in your face. Like we're all good. Cool. Awesome. Like I just want you to know, still love you as a, as a fellow actor. We're all good. Cool. All right. Should we do another take? Cool, mate. And then being able to do that kind of thing. So important because we're all human and

David John Clark (40:49)
I love it.

Fair enough.

JASON MOORE (40:53)
whether you're pretending to yell at someone in their face in a scene, it can still bring out real emotions, especially if we've been through our own trauma or whatever. You add that on top of the stuff too, it can be triggering. So check in with each other too when you're doing those hard scenes.

David John Clark (41:06)
And these days on set, we have stunt professionals on set, of which you're training to be one. And now, thankfully, we have intimacy coordinators. With everything that's happened over the years, it's great now that we'll have intimacy coordinators on set. And people just think that they're there for sex scenes. No, they're there for just the simple thing where people got to hug or hold someone's shoulder or massage. Just the simple things that get inside that little circle.

JASON MOORE (41:15)
Mm, 100%, yeah.

Yeah.

David John Clark (41:34)
Now, do you think with everything we've just talked about that you could see the positive of having a mindfulness coach or counselors on set to assist actors on set for like we just talked about, especially for those heavier scenes or those characters that they're playing?

JASON MOORE (41:38)
Mm.

Mmm.

Yeah, for sure. Especially if it's a really intense scene, for sure. I think it would be really important for the director or the production team to take that on board and kind of, we have, most companies have employee assistance packages where you can access mental health support. I really feel like in some of those film industries, we really should have that as well on certain sets. You should have, for those intense episodes or scenes, have a therapist on standby.

Have somebody just been there that they can be a safe place of, okay, hey, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. Do you mind if I just grab a chat to the counselor for 10 minutes to bring myself back to reality kind of thing? I definitely think that's important. And I think it's fantastic that we've got intimacy coordinators because you're right, they are, they do fill that role on a lot of cases too. But it's definitely something that can be expanded on, I think, in certain fields for sure.

David John Clark (42:39)
Yes.

JASON MOORE (42:44)
So Talk To Me, we actually had an intimacy coordinator on set with us when we were playing the Predator Spirits because some of us were completely naked, some of us were just walking around in a sock covering our bits. So as weird as that might sound, that's still pretty intimidating. Even for the people that were walking around in singlets and their underwear, there was still that element of the vulnerability. So having the intimacy coordinator there for that was really important too.

And we did all get along well. We did all kind of, there wasn't, for me personally, there wasn't any uncomfortable feelings because you had that safe person there that was watching over everything too. So you felt supported. So yeah, it's definitely something that is very important in all of these types of industries.

David John Clark (43:29)
That's awesome. We're opening up another job for Jason that they can get on set for.

JASON MOORE (43:31)
Hehehe.

David John Clark (43:33)
We're starting to wind up now, Jason, but so I'll get you to talk a bit about what services you can offer for actors. But if you had to give one piece of advice for actors or something that they could do every day to start to build on their mindfulness or to just learn on it, what would you say that they can be doing every day to make that better for them?

JASON MOORE (43:36)
Mm -hmm.

My main bit of advice would be (a) connecting with the reason why you started this in the first place; (b) connecting with something that's bigger than or outside of the performing arts, a hobby and interest having something that is also a part of you that isn't the performance side. So that might be a musical instrument. It might be

a sport that you enjoy doing. It might be something else or that's artistic, but not particularly film related. Having another element of your personality is also super important because it's the same thing as if we get caught up in being identifying with our professional relationship. If we get consumed and that becomes our identity and our only identity, if we struggle or go through something hard in our work environment,

It's really hard to move forward from that because we're going, what else have we got? What else have I got for me? So that would be the second element is having that other part of yourself that lights up that joy inside of you. And the third part, reaching out if you need support and surrounding yourself with people that lift you up to and building that network around you. That might be, doesn't have to be always a therapist or a coach like myself. It can be your best mate. It can be a partner. It can be a acting coach or even,

If you've got a really good agent, it could be agent as well. Don't be afraid to reach out to people and talk to them about stuff that you might be struggling with. And if there is a scene like we were just talking about that does feel like, Oh, this feels like it's might bring up some stuff or there's some stuff there that I'm a bit concerned about, or it's triggering things in me that I don't know why. Coming back to that third point, don't be afraid to reach out. Also, don't be afraid to

learn from that and take something away from that and go, okay, cool. Maybe there's something that I want to work on. What is it about that? That's triggering me. Or what is it about that? That like, there's something deeper there. Maybe I could probably use that to learn something about myself here. Okay. Let me go away and work on that for a bit. And yeah, so they would be my, my main three tips in relation to being able to like move forward as an actor and keep your mindset in the best place.

David John Clark (46:07)
I love it. Because I, my secondary thing that's completely different to acting is bodybuilding. So I've been a gym goer since I was 16 and competed pretty much every 10 years. So that's something that gets my natural endorphins flowing and be able to focus on myself. And then going to your third point there about having someone to talk to. I'm lucky I've got a wonderful wife, my wife, Kellie

JASON MOORE (46:12)
Mm. Yeah, cool.

Mmm.

Mmm.

David John Clark (46:31)
who I can go to and say, Hey, I'm doing it tough and I can talk to her. So that's my outlet. And it's about, no, not everyone's married or have a partner, but you've got mates and you've got coworkers. And I love that you have that instruction that just feel free to reach out because it might just need to be a 10 minute chat and say, yeah, I'm cool. Thanks. Yeah. And not aim for the negative things. And so many people reach for the booze, you know, because it makes you feel good. And then.

JASON MOORE (46:36)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah. The quick release of, yeah. Yeah. Yep. No. Oh yeah. For sure.

David John Clark (47:01)
And it takes the pain away really, doesn't it? And we don't want to go down that path, even though you have a glass of wine at the end of the day to relax and meld out. But then when you start having it every day and instead of talking about your problems, you just hit another bottle of red sort of thing. That's when you need to, the flags start flying. The warnings are up.

JASON MOORE (47:14)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. And this kind of relates to a lot of areas, but the other question I often get people to ask themselves is two questions. What's, what's the worst that could happen realistically, especially when it comes to like film, film industry. Okay. Like, okay. You, if you're on set, something goes wrong. Worst that can happen is maybe you need to do another take or worse it can happen is that

film or that particular character isn't your best performance. That's okay. I guarantee you can learn something from that. And if we keep working on ourselves and keep moving forward, there'll be other opportunities. The world isn't going to implode if we make a mistake. That's a good reality check as well, which has a lot to do with our mindset too. And also kind of, yeah, that idea of bringing yourself back to the present moment too of like, Hey, I've got all these other elements going good for me as well. Like it's not

just because this one particular thing might have went wrong or not gone to plan. That's just one part of me. There's all these other parts of me as well. So yeah, two good little reality checks, because we can sometimes get hooked with the stories that our mind tells us sometimes.

David John Clark (48:33)
And that's a perfect way to end the show on. I think, Jason, where can people find you both on your acting side of things, on the socials as well as if they want to reach out to you for Moore Mindful Services to whether they're actors listening to this or just everyday people that would like to find more out about learning mindfulness and everything, where can they find you?

JASON MOORE (48:48)
Mm.

Sure thing. So for my counseling and coaching side of things, you can look up Moore Mindful Services. Or you can look up Moore Mindful Services on Facebook. You can also find me,

for my acting side of things at jmooreactor on Instagram, jasonmooreactor on Facebook and on all other socials too and also on YouTube under that same handle too.

David John Clark (49:13)
And I'll link them all in the show notes of course.

Jason, thank you very much. As a final word, is there anything you'd like to throw out to my audience, whether it be on the mindful side of things or the acting side of things, what they can do to make their lives better?

JASON MOORE (49:26)
Definitely follow your passion and don't be afraid to take action yourself to get you towards that direction or that goal that you're after in your life.

David John Clark (49:36)
Well, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on today, Jason. It's been fantastic. Thank you very much. My podcast is about learning from the people that I've shared my journey with and our journey is ongoing. So I'm looking forward to the future that we have together here in Adelaide and wherever that takes us in the next couple of years. So thank you very much for coming on the show.

JASON MOORE (49:40)
It's been a pleasure to be here.

It's been a pleasure, I look forward to seeing you on set at Blood City Season 2.

David John Clark (50:01)
Cheers, mate.

JASON MOORE (50:03)
See ya.