David John Clark (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Late Bloomer Actor with me, David John Clark, The Late Bloomer Actor, naturally.
In this episode, I continue on the season four theme of the business side of acting with a wonderful guest, Darren Darnborough. He is the co-founder of the online audition and rehearsal platform, WeAudition. In this post-COVID world that has sped up the switch to self-taping as opposed to in the room auditions, being able to record and submit a self-tape is now a must-have skill for all actors. And this is where WeAudition comes in. Darren is a British actor, host and director based in Los Angeles.
His TV work includes the hit shows, True Blood, a favorite of mine, Two Broke Girls and Roots. And film work includes Abruptio, I hope I pronounced it right, 20 Foot Below, and here's another pronunciation for me, Stefano Formaggio. He was trained in London, UK, where he worked as an actor on stage and television before relocating to Hollywood. In this episode, you will learn all about the WeAudition platform and the many benefits it has for actors, but also many insights into the changing face of acting around the
world. More importantly, how this changing environment can be embraced by all actors, regardless of where they are in the world, to prepare their career forward. And as a heads up, if you're not part of the WeAudition community and would like to be, then sign up today at www.weaudition.com and make sure you use the promo code LATEBLOOMER for a 25 % discount to your ongoing monthly membership. That's wonderful. now...
Let's have a chat with the wonderful Darren Darnborough.
David John Clark (01:38)
Good morning, Darren. Welcome to The Late Bloomer Actor podcast. How are you,
Darren Darnborough (01:42)
I'm good thanks, how you doing?
David John Clark (01:44)
Not too bad. Not too bad. We are going into the fourth season of the Late Bloomer Actor, and last season was a focus on the podcasts that I listened to and gained insights from to propel my acting career forward. So I could have actually spoken to you and your team last year because you guys have your own podcast, but for this season, I'm focusing on the business side of acting a little more. And that's why I've reached out to you as one of the co-founders of a truly remarkable platform in my personal opinion,
called WeAudition. Now for those listeners that might not be completely aware of WeAudition, could you give us a little insight into what it is, why you came up with it and how it evolved into what it is today, as well as a bit of your background.
Darren Darnborough (02:27)
Yeah, thank you, David. I appreciate you such nice things about it because we work really hard to make that happen. So we audition for anyone that doesn't know, its simplest form is a way to get a self-tape reader on demand. So anytime a day and night, you can go on to the website or the app. We have an iPhone app as well. And you can book a qualified reviewed reader that's probably also an actor.
Either an actor or casting director or coach on there. And it's on demand like booking an Uber. So when you need your self-tape reader or even a rehearsal partner, a scene partner, you might want some accent advice, for instance. You can go on there and within three minutes, you will get the exact type of reader you want based upon your criteria, whether it be a certain accent, a character type.
or you might want them to have experience in comedy or drama, that kind of thing. You can even book somebody that's been on the show you've auditioned for. Yeah, we have a massive database of people that are actors themselves and also go on in their spare time to be readers for other actors.
David John Clark (03:25)
That is nice.
Darren Darnborough (03:39)
Outside of that, it's just a really great community of actors and industry experts around the world that help each other out. We also throw some live events at all the big film festivals, so Cannes, Sundance, Toronto, things like that. And then occasionally in different geographical cities. I did a couple in Australia a couple of years ago in Melbourne and Sydney. And it's just a way to bring actors together on a very professional level. So generally our members are auditioning regularly.
They either need help or they want to give help to other actors. And it's a lovely community. How it came about was literally, that's what we needed ourselves. Me and my business partners, we needed a way to read the other lines in for an audition tape. Back when self-taping wasn't exclusively the way that we did things, it was a sort of an option.
David John Clark (04:21)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (04:31)
I lived in LA, my business partner at the time, she lived in LA as well. We had many friends that were actors just by nature of where we lived. And still it could be hard to schedule someone. You know, you had to be on their schedule. You drive somewhere, you know, you do the whole thing. Maybe that person would want to get involved in a conversation about how badly their weekend went first and throw you off. There's all these different scenarios that you contend with.
David John Clark (04:39)
Of course. Wow.
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (04:59)
But video chat was getting so good that, and this was 10 years ago, we were like, there should be a way to just connect with somebody through video chat. And that's how we, as actors, were occasionally doing self-takes if we were traveling. Or in the example of when we actually came up with the idea, I was on set in my dressing room. So I couldn't, I had some new lines to learn for a sitcom. I couldn't actually go and find someone else
that was a friend of mine. So I could FaceTime or Skype somebody. But then the challenge became who's going to be available. Well, that's where the idea of an on-demand, instant self-tape reader came from.
David John Clark (05:32)
Mm.
Excellent. And I love it. We'll get into the nitty gritty of it a bit, but you mentioned community there. I recently for last year's season, my season finale, I had 12 guests on. All podcasts hosts from around the world. And one of the biggest things that came out of that was the discussion about community. So can you expand on that a bit more about the benefits that you get from WeAudition and that you see that guests are the
Darren Darnborough (05:57)
Yeah
David John Clark (06:12)
as your people on the platform get in that community sense and the positives of that towards someone's acting career.
Darren Darnborough (06:21)
Yeah, I mean, I could speak for hours about this. Community to me is the cornerstone of almost everything we do. And it's so interesting, but I remember doing an exercise, one of these kind of acting workshop exercises where you're focused on your goals and career. And they were asking us what our why is, about why we do what we do.
The common theme I found with everything I've done, whether it's acting, I used to be a travel journalist, I've run several companies, founded a couple of companies, it's always, the cornerstone has always been community. It's always been about bringing people together in one way or another. And I think that's one of the key factors in life that we all need in addition to food and shelter.
David John Clark (07:07)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (07:16)
You know, it's the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but existing in a community, feeling part of something, having people to lean on. And then if you think about the actor business, when we're working.
When we're on set, it's great. We have a community, we have all the crew there, we have the other cast members, we're part of a family. People often talk about their set family, you know, but the reality is actors aren't working most of the time. Most actors aren't working most of the time. And in that instance, it's very isolating because we are in an industry where we present our materials and we wanna get the job for us.
David John Clark (07:40)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (07:57)
And it's only when we get the job we really get to work with other people. And that's where you have community theatre and you have classes and workshops.
David John Clark (08:01)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (08:08)
With something like WeAudition, the thing I think is most fantastic about it is when you sign up to WeAudition, you're signing up to a community of like-minded people. And those are actors that want to work hard on their craft. Those are actors that are actually acting.
Every day, be it on set or auditioning or working on their scenes or helping someone else out. It's not the people that feel like they might apply to one thing and they want to be a star overnight. It's not the... And I remember being at university when I was on an acting course where a requirement to be in the part of the course was just good grades. It wasn't good grades in acting. It wasn't an experience of acting.
David John Clark (08:51)
Okay.
Darren Darnborough (08:52)
And
I experienced in my course, there were people that really didn't care. They wanted to, in their own words, mess around for three years. And when you're serious about your craft, you want to be around like-minded people, not somebody that thinks that it's just a way to fritter away the time. So you've put all those things together. It's so important to have someone to bounce off. And now most of us, if we're not in a relationship with someone that's an actor,
David John Clark (09:03)
Mm.
Darren Darnborough (09:15)
or we don't have even very close friends that are actors or in our immediate community. It's likely we've got families or boyfriends or girlfriends or roommates that don't understand the nuances of your world. So it's great to have people to bounce off. And so the way that WeAudition does that is very organically. If you're part of the platform, you're probably using it on a nearly daily basis.
And so you're getting to meet other actors around the world. You're getting different perspectives. You're getting to meet the same people again and again. We have readers on there that work with the same actors across the country. And they've never met in person, but they feel a strong affiliation with that person. It's someone to bounce off. And then as I mentioned before, we do the live events because I, know, even more since COVID, I think...
David John Clark (09:58)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (10:08)
having in-person connection has been lacking. And if you study what there's now saying is an epidemic of loneliness, people need community. People are striving to have in-person connections as much as possible. And our industry certainly has gone very much on line.
David John Clark (10:29)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (10:30)
from From
the auditioning room. I remember I used to see actor friends in the waiting room. We might go for coffee afterwards. We don't have that now. And so even though we run a platform which facilitates online connection, which I'm very proud of, I equally think it's important to get out there, meet in person, have human interactions with like-minded individuals. And that's what WeAudition tries to facilitate offline as well.
David John Clark (10:56)
It's interesting, you were sort of saying there the isolation for actors and how things have changed since COVID and everything. So how do you see the evolution of self-taping post-COVID? It's now become the cornerstone of the casting process and essentially isn't it? So how do platforms like WeAudition shape the future of self-taping itself for the actual submissions for your acting? And what challenges do you think actors and casting directors will face as the industry
continues to embrace these virtual sessions, so to speak.
Darren Darnborough (11:30)
Good question. I'm not a fan of people thinking this is new or thinking it's going to quote unquote go back. I think that's misguided and sometimes a little delusional in a sense because COVID, what COVID did for our industry was it just threw up a lot of inefficiencies in the business.
That other industries were already seeing and responding to. The idea of us traveling across town to an audition, driving in our cars, polluting the atmosphere, finding parks ... I know actors that go, I miss auditioning in person and that's okay, I understand the reasons you did. Personally, I don't miss driving across rush hour traffic for an hour,
to get to my audition stressed out, not prepared. When I was in London, because I've acted in both London and Los Angeles, it's a different beast. I would travel an hour and a half on a tube train and then I might get out and it might rain on me and I didn't have my umbrella. I turned up to auditions soaking wet before. Now you can't tell me that's putting my best foot forward, you know? And then the cost associated with that.
David John Clark (12:39)
Wow.
Definitely.
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (12:54)
When
you're a working actor, that's fine. It's a cost to do a business. When you're a new actor, those transportation costs are expensive. And if you're not booking that regularly, it adds up. So this is just a convenient way of doing stuff. I don't think the industry is gonna change that because it made it more efficient. Now there's an argument that everything is put on the actor now. And...
David John Clark (13:17)
Yes!
Darren Darnborough (13:19)
I know there's disdain about that. We have to have our own backdrops and self tape lights and all those things. I like to remind people that's a pretty much a one time investment, right? You can buy a pop up backdrop on Amazon 40 bucks. You can buy a couple of lights. You can buy a couple of good lights for a hundred bucks, right?
David John Clark (13:36)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (13:38)
I'm not saying everyone can afford that straight off the bat. It's not for me to say what people's personal finances is, but what I will say is back in the day when we driving across town, I had to be spending that on paper headshots and stapling my resume to them. So the costs haven't increased, the inconvenience hasn't increased, it's just shifted. And I think that's the natural evolution of an industry. So...
David John Clark (13:59)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (14:04)
Where's it going? I absolutely think it's going to stay here. There's no reason for it to go back to expensive offices. The good part about that for actors is there's more opportunity. You don't have to now live in a major city or centrally located. I remember when I moved to LA, it's very important for me to live in the exact right place so that I can get to all the auditions quickly. Now I can live wherever I want. So my quality of life can go up,
David John Clark (14:28)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (14:34)
because I'm not worried about that. For casting, if people don't understand how casting works, they often would have their own office or they'd be given a budget by the studios for the office. Now that's not happening. Again, much to disdain of casting directors that want to have an office. But I can't see a world, if you ask me my honest opinion, I can't see a world where that cost becomes necessary again for...
David John Clark (14:50)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (15:03)
from a purely business standpoint from a studio or from a production, right? Because an alternative exists that is just as good and cheaper.
David John Clark (15:14)
And we have to look at the positives more than anything, isn't it? So the casting directors now can reach out and see a lot more people. And some people say, well, that's a bad thing because now I'm fighting with more people. But no, because now they're reaching down for want of a bit of a way, analogy of looking at it. They're looking down the ladder. So there's more chance that you're going to be seen. Wherein in the old days, you weren't high enough on the ladder to be asked come in the room, because in the room, what?
How many people can they see per day? Whereas, yes, but now they're looking at hundreds of self-tapes for one role.
Darren Darnborough (15:43)
30 people. Yeah.
It all depends, David, how selfish you are as an actor, right?
If you were working a lot as an actor back in the old system and you were in all those rooms and you did have all those relationships, yeah, this is going to suck for you. Competition opened up. Be unselfish for a second and go as an acting industry. Is this better for diversity, inclusion? Is it better for the actor coming up that you once were?
David John Clark (16:06)
Mm.
Darren Darnborough (16:25)
I remember my first job and the day before my first job I had zero jobs and getting that shot was imperative to my career as it is for the next person. So I want those people to have that shot.
David John Clark (16:36)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (16:42)
And if that means that it's less closed shop for me, if I'm being unselfish on a global sense, it's better for the industry. But you know what that is also better for? I also remember being in England where I was seen for the same show so many times. I actually did three different roles in the same show, which doesn't really exist in America. But yeah, now if I did three roles in the same show, that means someone else didn't get the chance to that role.
David John Clark (17:02)
Wow.
Darren Darnborough (17:11)
At the same time, I wasn't seen for some different types of shows that I wanted to be seen for. Because there was a different group of people that were in that closed shop. So as a newer actor or even as a more established, experienced actor, you're probably now going to be getting different opportunities than you were.
David John Clark (17:16)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (17:34)
And of course, the landscape of television, we are making more content now. So yes, there's more competition, but there's more content to be part of. So it just shifts. I'm not trying to convince anybody to be one way or the other about the future of this, but I think the best thing you can do as an actor is, anyone in life really, is understand what's actually happening, respond and adapt with that versus I wish it used to be how it was.
David John Clark (18:03)
Mmm.
Darren Darnborough (18:04)
And then get excited by the possibilities of that and use them to your advantage. The one way I use this to my advantage, I love to travel and I think it's something that I love to do for myself. I think it's enriching as a human being and I think it's enriching as an actor because my job as an actor is to play different roles of different people from different places, right? That's my job, to understand human emotion.
David John Clark (18:28)
Definitely.
Darren Darnborough (18:31)
To me, the more I can travel, the better person, actor, life I have. And so if this new, it's not new, but if this ongoing and future situation of casting being remote allows me to travel more, that's an absolute plus.
David John Clark (18:50)
That's wonderful. I've said a few times on my show, I'm looking forward to retiring from my full-time career in about three years from now. So I'll be in a position to take up acting full-time and have a pension behind me so I can travel the world with my wife and take the auditions and you flip the laptop up and go for it. And you were saying before about the costs.
Darren Darnborough (19:12)
What's your full-time
career David?
David John Clark (19:14)
I'm actually not allowed to mention it. I work for the government. So I say that much before I have restrictions on the connections between acting and my real world. So I was on a podcast with Janet McMordy from Canada. She does a Second Act Actors. And she just loved it. And she's titled the whole episode, David John Clark and his secret career as an actor sort of thing. So.
Darren Darnborough (19:16)
Okay, okay.
Okay, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, yeah, yeah, I know her. Yeah, we did have a fuck as well. Yeah.
Hahaha
David John Clark (19:42)
So I'm looking forward to that. And we were talking before about the costs of this setup, really there isn't. Everyone's got a, it's got one of these in their pocket. I don't have an iPhone. I've got a real phone. I've got a Samsung Galaxy. So, but they've all got, they've all got those fantastic cameras and really everyone's got a window. There's your lighting and yeah. And the mics, yes, okay. So you lose a little bit of sound quality when you use a phone, but for an audition.
Darren Darnborough (19:51)
Yeah.
You've got a better camera on that one.
David John Clark (20:10)
They just want to see your acting. So put the phone on and deliver it. And like I said, you can jump on your phone, worst case, and still connect to WeAudition. Find your readers and have them there. It's just brilliant.
Darren Darnborough (20:13)
Yeah.
Well, I will say this about the whole setup and the lighting and all of that stuff.
I've spoken to hundreds of casting directors, whether it be in person, through our podcast, through the live events we do, we do panels at all the film festivals. I've spoken to hundreds of casting directors around the world and agents and managers. The common thing is, and this is the advice that is uniform across the board, can we see you? Can we hear you?
And then there's a bit of, is there anything distracting behind you? Take that simplest form. Right now, you I don't have professional lighting, but we can see and hear me and you, right? This is a little bit distracting, right? I could move something and put it behind me, right? But that's a she or like we said, a one-nose, like $40 backdrops on Amazon. So...
David John Clark (21:12)
That looks great.
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (21:25)
That as a bare minimum is what you've got to strive for. And as you say, a modern camera on a cell phone, you can see clearly as long as your lens is clean, make sure you clean lenses guys. The microphone is good enough. When they say it doesn't have to be studio quality mic, it has to be, we can make out the words and any modern phone you can. Now, if an actor wants to invest in slightly better lights, lav mic or whatever these things, I don't think that's a bad thing. And if
David John Clark (21:44)
Yes, definitely.
Darren Darnborough (21:55)
I don't think it's also necessary. I personally have booked jobs where I've been in a hotel room and I flipped a table lamp around to be in my face, right? And I booked the job. So I think the point is, just, can you see you? Can you hear you? And do you have a reasonably non-distracting background?
David John Clark (22:05)
Nice.
Darren Darnborough (22:16)
And that's it, then focus on the acting. And if you can afford to get better equipment, please do, it's your career. You should feel as comfortable as you want. But I think just know that that's not expected across the board from everyone I spoke to, no matter what
self-tape lighting course tells you or whatever and everyone's going to have a story of how I lit my thing so amazing and then I booked a job and for each one of those I've got a story where I was rushing out the door I flipped a hotel lamp over I did my self-tape in 45 minutes start to finish and I booked the job as well
Right? So everyone's going to have both of those stories. So don't get hung up on that. Focus on doing good acting and focus on the business, getting the agent, getting the auditions in and just doing your work. You know, I think we distract ourselves with so much other stuff.
David John Clark (22:50)
Mm.
Hmm.
Definitely, bring it back to WeAudition a little bit. We were talking about the diversity of actors and everything like that. WeAudition works on a 24-7 basis, obviously, around the world. So in relation to time zones, positive or negative for WeAudition?
I've been on WeAudition both as a reader and self-taper. How do you find the complexity of the time zone working for actors? Is it a plus or a minus?
Darren Darnborough (23:35)
Well, the truth is it doesn't matter because
there is readers on there 24-7. And I worked very hard in 2019. I traveled to 36 countries around the world. And I hosted events in all those places. From China to Australia to Italy to France to Poland, Canada.
I went across the world, met with agents, casting directors, actors, managers, drama schools. The result of that is we have people all around the world using it, which means that anytime, day or night now, there are more than enough readers available for you to choose from. It's not just this, there's someone, there's many
and you've got a choice. And because it's on demand, you don't have to worry about the time zone. This is the amazing thing about WeAudition is you don't need to schedule it. Someone like me, the way I work as an actor, I'll learn my lines in the process I have, I'll do my research. And sometimes I'm like, I have a window of opportunity, but you know, I might be have a dinner to go to that evening. I'm like, this is a good time. I'm feeling good about the script. I want to do it right now. The lighting's good. I want to do it right now.
David John Clark (24:55)
Beautiful.
Darren Darnborough (24:56)
And that's what I can do on WeAudition. I'll go on there and I know there'll be someone very, very experienced and qualified to help me out. It takes away the stress of that thing. It takes away setting an appointment. If you go around your friend's house, you've probably set an appointment with them. That doesn't offer you flexibility to go, actually, I'm not really on top of my lines. Let me do a bit more work on that. It doesn't offer the flexibility for something to happen, which could...
David John Clark (25:12)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (25:25)
take precedence, right? Now, even though I run a business, I have the mind of a full-time actor. And so my audition will be my priority, but it's not my only priority. If my bathroom starts leaking, I'm gonna wanna get that fixed first, right? I've got two days to do this audition. Let me fix the bathroom. And so not having an appointment is just an extra bit of stress, but when I'm ready to tape, I go in there, I pick who I want and I tape.
David John Clark (25:56)
And I love it because I worry.
I worry that when I'm asked to read for someone that my Australian accent will change their whole audition because I tend to find that it's quite interesting when the Australian readers are online, it's late at night in the US. And so you tend to have those last minute late night auditionees coming on saying, I've got an audition in the morning. I want to practice my lines or I've got to submit it by the morning. So I will always worry, but
Darren Darnborough (26:12)
Hmm.
Yeah.
David John Clark (26:27)
I've never had an issue and I've done, I've read for actors who are submitting for an American productions and then they've got back to me later on and said, I've got the role. So I love that concept that you're being in part of a part of something that as Australians, we probably would never be able to even audition for, but you're in it. Now you're involved in the process. You're part of the whole system and that's fantastic.
Darren Darnborough (26:52)
Absolutely, I really agree with your points, David. There's a couple of beautiful things about that. The access, you said, access to the community and information. You can be anywhere in the world and understand what's casting in Hollywood by being a reader on WeAudition. And when I say Hollywood, I mean the Hollywood industry as a whole, not specifically the town.
David John Clark (27:13)
Hmm.
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (27:22)
But
if you are an actor that's done a few local productions and you've done some local commercials and whatever in your home country, you never had access really to what's going on in the American entertainment industry. The same as when I was in England, I never had access to what was going on in the Australian entertainment industry, short of watching Neighbours and Home and Away on my TV, right?
But now you'll get... We
David John Clark (27:51)
I love it that you know those two shows, that's great.
Darren Darnborough (27:54)
were like really into them. But now you get this insight because you're helping other actors understand their auditions processes and exactly what's casting. Now before that people would go to classes and you do scene study. So many classes aren't using current materials. Isn't it better that you're working with actors that are doing television right now somewhere in the world?
David John Clark (28:18)
Definitely.
Darren Darnborough (28:18)
And then the
other thing about the accent, this is going back to the shift in diversity, inclusivity, and a worldwide market. Shows and films are shooting all over the world, more than ever. More than ever. Productions are getting expensive in the traditional places like LA and New York and London, so they're moving outside. People are used to accents now.
TV, the remit is more diverse. There's more diverse shows. There's more accents in shows. And it used to be that, I have an English accent. If you watch TV, it used to be that the one English person in the show was the professor. He was the smart professor. Or they made a joke of it constantly like Jane Leeves in Frasier. Now it's it's normal. Australians live in America. Brits live in Australia.
David John Clark (29:06)
Mm.
Darren Darnborough (29:12)
Somebody from India lives in London. By the way, it always was like that, especially from London, but television and film didn't reflect that. Now it does. We still got a long way to go. I know there's people that will probably be listening to this being like, yeah, it's not there yet. It's not there yet maybe, but it's definitely different. Casting is there,
David John Clark (29:21)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (29:35)
in the mind of the casting director. So if you have an accent, I don't think, with a few exceptions, anyone's listening to that, being like, I don't get why that person has an accent. It's normal for casting, right? And so when you're booking a reader, again, as an actor, all I want is that my reader is clear, I can hear them, and they're a good actor, right? And I think a lot of people,
forget that last bit. I want my reader to be a good actor, whatever accent or language they're in. And the reason I say that is because it makes me a better actor. It's purely selfish. I want you to be a good actor because I act better with good actors than my random friend or my girlfriend that's not an actor, right? They just give you a different thing. And if I can be a better actor, I will...
David John Clark (30:29)
I love it.
Darren Darnborough (30:34)
have more likelihood of booking the job. So start to finish. I want a reader that's competent, experienced, helps me out.
David John Clark (30:44)
Hmm. And I love that. And you find that people ask for readers to either just be there, be present and deliver the lines done in, out, finish. Whereas other times they say, look, I'd love to hear your feedback. I'm really struggling with this. What's your opinion? Or can you tell me to give direction, so to speak? And I've done both. So I've been on there where they've got, thank you, happy. Or they've asked and I've said, well, how about you do it this way? And they go, my God, I didn't even think of that. So.
Darren Darnborough (30:45)
You know.
Yeah.
Hmm, yeah.
Hmm.
David John Clark (31:11)
And then they get a different take and just that learning there, regardless of what tape they end up submitting in. It's that direction that you're receiving, which is what I used to love about being in the room, because you would have that direction in a scene, especially if you maybe went the wrong way with that sort of thing. They go, no, we want more of this sort of concept. Whereas with a self-tape, you're submitting what you think. But at end of the day, if you're good actor and you've got what they want for the role,
Darren Darnborough (31:40)
Yes.
David John Clark (31:40)
They'll ask
you to resubmit and say, can we, can we see it more gritty or whatever they're looking for.
Darren Darnborough (31:46)
I think you're right there, David. I think again, actors get hung up on that stuff. I've been acting for many, many years, like 20 plus years. And I can probably count on a couple of hands the amount of times I've actually received direction in the room as well. And maybe other people have had different experiences, but.
David John Clark (31:56)
Nice.
Okay.
Darren Darnborough (32:08)
I know so many auditions where it was go in, do your thing, thank you. And actually many of those were bookings as well, right? It wasn't that the direction helped me book and often when they redirected me, I didn't book it. And then further to that, I will say this, oftentimes that person is not the person choosing at all.
David John Clark (32:17)
Yep.
Darren Darnborough (32:31)
And so they're just communicating what they've been told down. And you're still, if you go in the room, you're still having a tape sent off to someone else that's making the final decision, right? So let's just remember that with self-taping is almost never, except if you're doing a screen test, producers or whatever, almost never is the person deciding in that room. They're just taping you for someone else. Right. And, and...
David John Clark (32:56)
Fair enough, fair enough. It's the same with the
self-tape, isn't it?
Darren Darnborough (32:59)
Exactly,
exactly. So, but with a self tape, you get several shots. You know, you could do that tape again, you could now, now it relies on you to be confident in your acting again. And so, yes, you don't get the possible redirection and it is possible, not definite. But what you are getting is this incredible freedom to be the actor you want to be, craft the role how you want to craft it,
with the information you've got and that is it. And by the way, everyone's got the same, right? It levels the playing field in that way. Everyone's sending it in blind like that. They've got the same scriptures you have. They've got the same information that you have.
Where you can go the next step as an actor is, I know so many actors, they don't read the breakdowns properly, they don't look people up. Look the people up. If it says who the producer is, look them up. Figure out what kind of work they do. Figure out what kind of tone their shows are. I've had several auditions in the last few months that the name of the show has been a code word.
David John Clark (33:57)
Yeah.
Darren Darnborough (34:08)
But I've absolutely figured out what the show is just by looking up the producers and the director combination. I figured out it was season two of this popular show. And so you can do that research to give yourself an extra edge. Now, in terms of what you were saying about using a reader, yes, allow another experienced actor to give you ideas. You don't have to take them.
David John Clark (34:08)
Hmm.
Wow.
Definitely.
Darren Darnborough (34:36)
You're
just using it as your toolbox. In the same way, I could Google something and I could choose to use it or choose to not use it. You know, one of the things I love doing when I'm going for a show is I look up the other characters I'm speaking to. And sometimes they might be series regulars in the show. So now if I look them up properly, I understand what type of person I'm speaking to. I know that they're detective, but are they the male detective, the female detective? Are they older? Are they young? Now, if I know the actor, the actual actor that's playing them.
David John Clark (34:56)
Interesting.
Darren Darnborough (35:06)
I can then cast my reader on WeAudition to be similar to that person. If this person has a paternal, grandfatherly kind of feeling about him, I'll pick the guy that looks like that. Again, it's about how does it help me get into the scene? And then like you said about taking advice from readers, I would say always ask. You don't have to take it. But
David John Clark (35:22)
I love that.
Definitely.
Darren Darnborough (35:32)
but you're putting yourself in a position of getting as much ideas and knowledge as you can. And then you choose the bits you like, you leave away the rest, and then you put in your best version of that self tape. And the other thing from speaking to all the casting directors I have spoken to, if you put in your best take in and you're doing good work,
they will absolutely see that and be like, hey, we weren't thinking of it going that way. Can you do it like this? Or they might actually see it as a wild card and go, actually, that's really interesting. But the comment I hear more often than not is the actor that they pick isn't necessarily the one that did it the way that they thought it should be done. It's the actor that made it their own, fully committed to whatever they were doing and getting back to the point was just a good actor.
David John Clark (36:04)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (36:21)
It's not about getting it right, quote unquote.
David John Clark (36:22)
I hear that all the time.
Awesome. As we wind up Darren, one of the biggest things for WeAudition is earning while learning. So the ability for actors is to earn an income by helping others rehearse or self-tape. It's one of your unique features. So how has this impacted the actor to actor dynamic? And do you think this model could change the way actors support one another in the industry?
Darren Darnborough (36:34)
Yeah.
I think it's a really positive thing that the actors support the actors in that way. It's one of the things I'm most proud of the company, to be honest, because actors having a side income has always been a point of contention in this industry. Most actors don't, we know from the strikes last year, the figures became very public. Most actors don't earn that much money. And then when they do work, they're very well paid, right?
David John Clark (37:06)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (37:19)
The discrepancy happens is that most actors don't work regularly enough. It's not the amount of pay they're getting for the work they're doing, it's just the amount of work they actually get. Now...
David John Clark (37:29)
And yeah, one thing just quickly
to cut in there, a lot of the arguments when people went, whoa, the actors are not working, they're not getting any money, but they're thinking about the Tom Cruise's of the world who being paid a million dollars.
They're not thinking about the 98 % of us that don't get paid a million dollars for their acting roles. Yeah. So like you said, you might, you might be a lead on a TV series, but you're not a Tom Cruise. you're, you're getting a good salary there, but then you might be out of work for two years. So you're getting nothing. Yeah, definitely. I just wanted to emphasize that because that's where everyone went. The woe is me with actors. They're thinking of the million dollar actors and there's very few of them.
Darren Darnborough (37:59)
Yeah.
Right, that's very correct. But also just to play devil's advocate there, there's the other sense of actor that never works. And if you never work, you're not gonna earn very much money in whatever industry. And I think a lot of the chat last year about how little actors were earning was conflated,
David John Clark (38:17)
Mm, fair enough.
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (38:34)
with this idea that we're underpaid. And actually, if you do work, you are paid pretty good in this profession for the work that you do. The problem is we don't work enough, right? We don't get enough jobs. So getting back to the WeAudition Actors at Actors Payments, it's really lovely that you can get to share money between the actors in your circle, support each other.
David John Clark (38:49)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (39:01)
Versus paying it out to business people outside of the thing. In some senses, I've put coaches and people like that in that arena. I personally would rather pay another actor that has worked on TV shows regularly to help me on my audition than a coach that once upon a time might have been an actor and has spent years coaching. Yes, that
David John Clark (39:30)
Mm.
Darren Darnborough (39:30)
might
make them good at coaching. But I don't necessarily believe any better than the person that just did the series regular on a TV show that I want to book. There's a different level of knowledge from that person. And so it's a choice. I'm not saying you shouldn't work with a coach, but it's also really lovely to pay your actor friends, keep it in the family versus supporting somebody's business outside of that,
David John Clark (39:41)
Mm.
Darren Darnborough (39:58)
that is only in it for the money, right?
David John Clark (40:01)
Definitely.
And a lot of the coaches are, are old school for want of a better term, aren't they? so they've just, they're just delivering their same package every time. Whereas when you're working with an actor who's on set, they're with the times, they know what casting directors are doing now. They know what directors are doing now. They know how things are being filmed and made because TV's changed. You know, we don't make TV like we did in the forties. TV's very different from the forties to our time now, isn't it?
Darren Darnborough (40:23)
Right.
Mm.
It's dynamic, isn't it? And the other thing I will say about that, and again, I'm not trying to rag on coaches here. There's many good coaches out there. But I'm talking about the kind of person that they're in it for the business of coaching. That's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with having your business to make money. But let's be real. That's the real reason they're doing it is to make money. Another actor that has a career as an actor is
David John Clark (40:39)
Of course.
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (40:59)
helping you out, yes to make money, if they're being a paid reader, but also because they really love working on acting with you. They enjoy it, they get a buzz from it, they're part of the process. And that comes through when we get these reports from our readers, they are so happy when they hear one of their actor clients booked. They feel part of that process, right? They're not doing it. Yeah. Right.
David John Clark (41:21)
yeah. And I've had that. It's a wonderful moment when they get back to you.
Darren Darnborough (41:27)
Because
you know what it does for you as an actor? It validates you. Because if we're an actor going on auditions, let's be honest, we almost never get validated. We never get told good job. You know how we get told a good job? It's when an agent calls you and says, you got the job. We go, good job, we got the job. Maybe on set, Director goes good job, right? You don't get tipped on set like a waiter.
David John Clark (41:31)
true.
Good job.
Darren Darnborough (41:56)
You did a really good job. No one comes across and says, Hey, you know what? There's an extra 200 bucks here. You did a great job today. Right. So those validation points are very few and far between. The thing I love seeing about our readers, they're getting validated every day that they are helpful, that they are good actors, that their assistance helps someone else book a job. What a wonderful feeling, right? To have the other person be like, you really helped me. I really enjoyed working with you.
David John Clark (42:15)
Definitely.
And that's what's good about the fee structure for it, isn't it? It's because actors can choose how much they charge for their 15 minutes, a half hour to an hour. But there's also that, that ability to tip. And I see it all the time, both for myself and, and you, you see it on the screen that comes up with, you know, recent it's all anonymous, of course, but it will show that they've paid their dollar 50 for 15 minutes, but then tip the actor $5 on top because they've obviously gone, you know what?
Darren Darnborough (42:31)
Yep.
Yep.
David John Clark (42:51)
What you gave me was fantastic and I'm going to, I'm going to reward you for it. And my podcast that we talk about a lot with some of the guys was value for value. And this is about paying that value for value. So in the podcasting world and the new podcast apps, you can now pay money when you listen to podcasts. But you choose to do that. And it's wonderful because it shows you, it gives people that ability to return to the artists that they're listening to. It's fantastic.
Darren Darnborough (43:13)
Yeah
Right, and in terms of the community of WeAudition there are, as I said at the start, our market is professional actors. There's a lot of actors doing very, very, very well, right? They're earning good money. And it's lovely seeing them support younger, newer actors, less experienced actors with that money. It's a great way to support your own community. And the other thing, I think, to mindset around money, right? When you pay for something,
David John Clark (43:39)
Agree.
Darren Darnborough (43:49)
you, there's two things that go on. You feel like you're, you're being, of service, right? Because you're giving someone else in the community some income. That's, that's a great feeling when you can afford it. Secondly, though, again, on the selfish side, if I'm paying you for your time, I expect to get what I expect, right? So we're going to work and we're going to do this. And if I need to do it again, if I need to do it 20 times and I've booked you for an hour,
David John Clark (43:56)
Yes.
Darren Darnborough (44:17)
you're gonna sit there and do it 20 times for me. Your roommate's gonna get bored after three times. Your girlfriend's gonna be like, I really wanna watch that show. I really wanna go cook dinner, but you're making me do this again. Again, it affects your acting. When something's transactional.
David John Clark (44:19)
Hmm.
Darren Darnborough (44:33)
And on top of that, the other person likes doing it, which is what you're getting as an actor. It's kind of unique. You know, most people don't enjoy their job. They'll do it because they're paid to do it. But with WeAudition you're getting paid to do it and you're enjoying it. That's a magical combination.
David John Clark (44:48)
Definitely, definitely. And I find that as well on the other side of the, as the actor that if you think I need to, I need to do another take, I'm not happy with it, but you just don't want to ask your readers, can we do it again? Because you know, you're using their time. So it's great that you can go on the platform and pay for what you need and get what you need. I love that. Darren.
Darren Darnborough (45:02)
Absolutely.
Yeah, and on that note, you
can actually extend time as well if you need it. yeah.
David John Clark (45:11)
Yes,
So Darren, just to wind up, thank you very much for coming on the show. As a long time user myself of WeAudition, both as a reader and for my own self tapes or rehearsals, I'm truly chuffed to be able to have you talk about the platform and the benefits to actors around the world. So to finish up, can I ask you what three things, and you don't have to say three things, it's just a magic number we use, but three things in relation to using the WeAudition platform
that would be the most important consideration for actors and readers to get the most of their time in that community.
Darren Darnborough (45:45)
Okay, the three things that you should do is definitely use it frequently, either as an actor or as a reader. It can't help you if you don't use it. It can't help you if you don't log in, right? So it's not a platform where you just sign up and then forget about it. Be part of the community. The second thing you can do, like I said, we have live events. If you're in one of the cities where we're having a party,
David John Clark (45:58)
Of course.
Darren Darnborough (46:13)
come along, it's great to meet people. The thing I mentioned before about how we have a platform of professional actors, because the actors are professional standard actors, when we invite agents, managers, casting directors to these events, they come. They really enjoy being in that room with high quality actors.
David John Clark (46:28)
Wonderful.
Darren Darnborough (46:33)
And then thirdly, have a look around the other areas of the site. We offer meditation guided meditations for actors. We have discounts, we have different resources, we have a list of podcasts and things like that. So use those benefits as well. It's a really good way to just get the maximum amount of stuff. and I appreciate all of your support, David, and you know, just hearing your, your perspective on it, it's wonderful. And I, I just am thankful to you for like being part of this community for so long.
David John Clark (46:53)
Thank you.
Thank you, I love being part of it. I've just got my wife in the corner here, I'll say that out loud that we're looking for any excuses to get back to LA now. We did Los Angeles last year as a family trip and I was there for work just before that. If we get the opportunity to come to one of your live events, I think that would be fantastic. So thank you for putting them on.
Darren Darnborough (47:21)
Thank you for saying that. Yeah, I hope to see you one soon. Next one's coming up at Sundance Film Festival.
David John Clark (47:25)
Thank you.
That'd be nice. I've never been to the Sundance. I'll definitely have to get there one day. And obviously, for anyone that's listening that hasn't become part of WeAudition, they can sign up at weaudition.com. And we do have a promo code LATEBLOOMER for the podcast. You can get 25 % off your membership. So make sure you use that as you sign up and you just, you won't look back. So Darren, thank you very much for coming on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure. And as I like to say,
I'll see you on set or I'll see you at WeAudition.
Darren Darnborough (47:58)
We'll see you both hopefully. Cheers. Thank you David
David John Clark (48:01)
Cheers Darren. Thank you very much.
David John Clark (48:05)
Well, there
go. How fantastic was that?
As we wrap up today's conversation with Darren, I'm struck by how platforms like WeAudition are not just about technology, but about reimagining what it means to be part of an acting community. Darren's insights highlight how the future of acting is increasing, collaborative and accessible with tools that allow us to connect, rehearse and even earn in ways that were unimaginable just a decade ago. What stood out most for me
and hopefully for you was Darren's passion for fostering community in what can often feel like a very solitary industry. Whether it's helping late-bloomers like myself, actors in remote areas, or those who want to sharpen their skills and build networks, WeAudition embodies a shift towards empowering actors at every stage of their careers. Our discussion also touched on some of the challenges and opportunities ahead for self-taping and virtual casting, which will undoubtedly continue to evolve.
It's clear that this is just the beginning of a new era for actors. And I'm personally, I'm inspired by the possibilities. So thank you Darren for an engaging and thought-provoking discussion. And don't forget, you can sign up to WeAudition at www.weaudition.com and make sure you use the promo code LATEBLOOMER for a 25 % discount for your ongoing monthly membership. If you really enjoyed this episode, please leave a review if you can on your podcast player.
Subscribe to ensure you receive future episodes. And if you can consider becoming a supporter of the show for as little as $3 a month. Now, as a supporter, you will receive an advance notice of upcoming interviews and a private link to the actual live interview where you can submit questions to the guest or myself live. You will find a link in the show notes. So thank you everyone. And as I always like to end with, I'll see you on set.
